#479 The Truth From The Stand Deer Hunting – Clint Campbell

March 30, 2018

WTR 479 | Stand Deer Hunting

 

Hunting is easier when you have the best vantage point, and looking down from above is always a good place to start. Clint Campbell, an avid bowhunter who specializes in hunting deer from stands, joins host, Bruce Hutcheon, in this episode. People usually only hear about success stories in hunting. Clint has made it a goal to share his experiences, whether success or failure as he continues to be a student of the woods. He uses his podcast, Truth From the Stand, as his platform to entice people to hunt and impart knowledge and wisdom on those that already do.

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LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE:

The Truth From The Stand Deer Hunting – Clint Campbell

We’re heading to Pennsylvania and we’re going to meet up with Clint Campbell. He is the host of Truth From The Stand, whitetail deer hunting. Clint, welcome to the show.

How’s it going, Bruce? Thanks for having me on.

I’m excited to talk to a fellow whitetail podcaster because there are a few of us and then every day there are more, I know that. Out in PA, how did your hunt season go?

It was good. Pennsylvania is one of those days, it’s tricky. There’s a lot of pressure and a lot of hunters. I’m talking to a buddy of mine just for some context for those out there reading. If you’re talking about the Midwestern season like Iowa for an example, which people think as a big hunting state, especially of deer culture, the number is right around 67,000 or maybe 70,000 archery hunters in Iowa. The number of bowhunters or archery hunters in Pennsylvania is 300,000 just to put that into perspective. It’s a big hunting heritage state.

If you include rifle season or gun hunters as well, you get close around 900,000 deer hunters in Pennsylvania. Hunting in PA can be some tough sled. I was fortunate one year. I had been chasing one particular buck for two years. I had three years’ worth of trail camera pictures of him and I hunted him late in the season. I did four sets when I saw him three times during late season because he goes nocturnal in mid-October, usually through rut into late season. I did my first set of the season. The opening weekend there’s a cold front that blew through that opening Saturday and I went to set because it was good weather and I had the right wind. Sure enough, I saw him on that first set. I knew where he was bedding. I thought I was going to a shot opportunity at him.

He came about 30 yards behind some brush. He’s with a group of deer. One of the deer came underneath my stand. I got a little nervous. I think the wind shifted on me and he caught a little whiff of something that he didn’t like. He turned around and started walking away. The deer that I have been hunting that I called, Lucky, he walked and followed him down the ridge. That was the last I saw of him. I ended up going out on a hunt. That was my family farm back home of about 240 acres. We do a little bit of habitat work back there and stuff. It’s a good time hunting back there.

I lived around Pennsylvania on a farm out towards Pittsburgh so it’s a couple of hours for me to travel. It was on a weekend and the weather wasn’t right for me to go back and hunt Lucky. I was like, “I’m going out to a buddy’s place.” His family got three acres, a small partial up against some public land here in the eastern PA. I was like, “I’m going to be a while up there, I had been stressing over that deer back in the family farm. We’re going to leave all the camera recording equipment at the house. I’m not going to take anything. I’m going out and enjoy myself in a timber.” If a deer comes by that gets my heart rate going and gets me excited I’m going to get one a rip. That was my motto. Thinking in my mind is I’m probably not going to see anything. I go and I crawl into the stand, it’s only the second time I’ve ever been on this property. I found a tree that I wanted to get into and got into it. It was the worst climb ever. I got in. My treestand was crooked. I went to pull my bow up. My bowstring got wrapped around my arrows and ripped half my arrows. I had one arrow in my quiver when I got the opportunity.

Is this going bad?

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It was going bad from the start. I got in the tree and I’m sitting here. My treestand was crooked. It was uncomfortable. I was like, “This possibly is the worst climb ever. It’s an evening hunt, it’s a couple of hours and I’m probably not going to see anything or whatever.” I had this little spike walk up in front me about eight yards, milling around. I watched him and he took off. Left after he messed around in front of me for about fifteen minutes. About twenty minutes later, I hear something jump out of the brush off to my right and out jumped this nice Pennsylvania eight-point. For a minute, I thought about letting him walk. He was about ready to break to his left and give me twenty-yard shot.

For whatever reason, I told myself, “If he goes left, I’ll let him walk.” If he walks out in front and follows the path of that younger deer that came out twenty minutes earlier, he’s going to be at eight yards, I’ve got to take the shot. Sure enough, he walks right in front of me at eight yards. I let it rip and that was the third week of October. I’ve been tagged out since October in Pennsylvania. That was the first time for me that’s ever happened that early. I was super stoked to wrap my tag around that buck and get it done that early in the season that I step my sights on Ohio then because at that point I was getting to go to Ohio for the rut.

Let’s take some CliffsNotes from this. One, you said, “I’m going to go out and hunt. Get all the other stuff, the self-filming and everything, I’m going to put that aside.” Technically, you’ve already been on this piece of property twice. Was this public land or private land? Tell us about that.

My buddy’s family owns a couple of acres. It’s three acres in the eastern part of Pennsylvania and there’s a big piece of state forest that their property butts up against. They have that small piece of property and then if you cross, there’s a little wood lot at the backend of here into the public land. Where I was sitting was basically on the property line between the public and where the property ends. It’s a creek bottom area. It’s eastern PA. It’s low-lying. Eastern PA is not a lot of terrain necessarily. In certain areas, you get some ridges and stuff. I won’t go as far to say it’s swampy, but it stays moist for the most part of the year. There’s a lot of undergrowth, there are a lot of vines. It’s one of those places when you walk into it looks bucky. When you walk in, you’re like, “This looks like a place where a buck would live.”

That was only the second I had been there. I hunted it one day late season last year. I did one sit on it and I had a nice PA eight-point walk up on me there. It was the last Saturday of bow season. I drew back on him and he heard something move in my bow. The carbine of my bow pulling across my rest middle of a screeching sound so it was cold out. I would usually lube it every evening before I go out to make sure I didn’t do that but I didn’t do it that evening. When I drew back, he heard it and busted me. It was my second sit on that property in two years. In both times, I had an eight-point walk out in front of me. We can talk about it if you want, but I have a bunch of good sits going back the last year’s rut. Where I go into a bunch of deer hunt in Ohio, I had a couple of nice shot opportunities and killed a nice young deer on public land in my third sit. I scouted it that summer before for one day and walk back on it in November. Put an arrow in a nice deer and had deer all around me that whole trip.

I had that killed in the beginning of the year and I was hunting that deer, Lucky and I kept seeing him every sit I had for him. It’s one of those things where every time I went and do a sit, I was seeing bucks. I was always seeing the buck that I wanted to see. You start to get this feeling of like, “Things are starting to make sense for me.” I’m walking into the woods and I’m assessing my terrain, I’m looking at MyTopo. I’m figuring out where my pinch points are, where my funnels are at, reading the sign when I get into the timber. I’m picking the right tree and I’m getting the right spots. I’m constantly seeing deer.

You start feeling you got the mojo a little bit. During the rut, I went to Ohio and I got kicked square in the groin. I’m not going to lie. When you feel good about yourself. If you go back even earlier that fall, I went to Montana and we got into some bulls. I was at full draw in a nice bull and I saw another nice bull that I had an opportunity at. I was at full draw and two different mule deer. All the hunts I had were almost a year. I was into the chips. I didn’t necessarily kill but I was in the money, then I went to Ohio and it was getting a punch in the face for nine days.

You got schooled, that’s all.

I got whitetail schooled, that’s for sure. We went to an area that has low deer density. We knew what the age structure is good is public land about 65,000 acres. It’s a big woods. There are no agricultural fields anywhere. It was all clear-cut timber in certain places, so you want to hunt the cuts. We had cameras out. We went down there during the summer and did some scouting and put cameras out, spend a day there scouting. We had good deer on camera. I want to say we probably had three maybe at least four deers that we had that were anywhere between 140 and mid-160s. We had good deers on camera especially for public land. The age structure in that area was good. You’re not going to get run over by deer. You might sit for three or four days and only see one deer, but it’s probably going to be a pretty decent one. They were all over the camera until we got there. It was almost we showed a week late because since we got there, it dried up. I saw three deers the whole trip and they were all bucks. They weren’t the ones I want to draw back on.

WTR 479 Clint | Stand Deer Hunting

We have an obligation as hunters to make sure that we present ourselves in the right way and that we protect the things we treasure and that are important enough for us and for future generations.Let’s go back to the PA hunt where you got that nice buck. Second time in the woods in the timber you say, how did you figure out where to put your stand? I know the stand went up convoluted and crosswise and almost upside down, but you had to pick a tree, you had to pick an angle, and you had to pick the direction. There are a lot of things you had to pick to set that up. Talk us through how that happened because it wasn’t by change. You didn’t go up and throw your stand up, I know that.

I looked at the map in the year before when I hunted that late season set. I did walk the edge of that property quick because I want to get the lay of the land and see what was going on. As I walked through, there was one area where I saw a bunch of trails converging. There were no trees around to get into. There’s one nasty crooked tree and if I was going to come back in here and hunt, it was going to be that tree. I probably wanted to be on an east wind. To the west of that tree would be the neighbors’ yard literally. Probably only 150 yards. I want my scent blow into that because I felt anything to my east would be where the deer would bed potentially because it was nasty thick. That was the plan walking in. I would say that I had a lot more thought into it other than that, but I knew I want to hunt on an east wind. I had a good wind that day when I walked in once I set my stand up. I did get all sweat it up. The wind cooperated with me fortunately because it one of those warm October days. I want to say it’s probably 68, 69 degrees getting close to 70. It wasn’t your typical nice cool hunting fall weather.

I knew what direction I thought the deer was going to come from. I thought they’re going to come from my right. I don’t do a lot of trimming of trees when I get into a tree. I usually try to opt for cover versus shooting lanes. I usually live with the shooting lanes that I’m going to have. That was the key for that spot. That tree had a lot of good covers, a lot of good breakups. October still had a lot of foliage on the trees. There wasn’t anything that’s going to bust me in there unless they got completely down the wind of me. By that time if they did that, the only way they’re going to get down and went to me, they’re going to have to give me a shot opportunity. That was set up for that tree and it all came together. It’s one of those odd things where you survey all the information that you have and you make the best choice that you can.

One of the things that I’ve learned at least in the recent years is that I used to be a guy that had paralysis by analysis where I would get so much data points and I would try to put the puzzle pieces together and I drive myself crazy. I would inevitably make the wrong choice. The past years, I started trusting my gut and my instinct a lot more than I had in years past. I’m looking for a good wind. I’m not necessarily always looking for the perfect wind or the 100% right wind. That’s my personality, I’m willing to take a little more risk than most guys probably. I know I wasn’t going to hunt this piece of property again probably, I didn’t go back to last Saturday of the season toward the end of January. I was going to trail a Hail Mary pass, I was going to go for broke and be a little bit aggressive and it worked out. You can’t complain.

Readers, there are a lot of great things that Clint shared with us. The thing that you want to remember is the last part of what he said. The goal is gut. Every single one of you out there knows where the deer are, know where they bed, food and get water, but then you’ve got to figure out, “What do I have to do so they’re going to come 30 no more in 40 yards or less to me?” Following your gut and the instincts, that worked for me in the past in a lot of different hunts just like my first time out in Colorado bowhunting for elk. I didn’t get one, but I was on top of him. They schooled me and that’s okay because I was 50 yards from this bedded bull and I’m not that good. I figured out what I needed to do and went and hunt it. Your thoughts on that Clint.

I had the least amount of success probably as a hunter when I would try to pay attention to every single data point. I’ll usually run a fair amount of trail cameras. In this property, I had no trail cameras. For the most part, I do a fair amount of scouting too, at least when I can. Some of the out state stuff I don’t get to scout as much, but I’ll put some boots on the ground. This one, I took one quick walk. It probably took me all 30 minutes to do a walk through this property almost the full year beforehand. Your eyes don’t deceive you. I try to think not to sound corny or cliché. If you think of yourself as a predator and if you’re hunting to eat for survival to feed your family or to feed your young or whatever the case is. If you think of it that way, don’t try to outsmart yourself. Put yourself in the best position where you think you’re going to see deer. Find that spot and that’s probably a good enough spot. I will pay more attention to specific data points if I’m hunting a specific deer.

For example that deer, Lucky, hunting on the family farm was something where I had spent two years watching him. I had two years with the trail camera data on him. I had a couple of visual sightings on him. I had sightings of him when I was glassing. I had a good history with that deer and I had a good idea what he was doing. I was able to make a strategic move on him and put myself in the right position, just didn’t get a shot opportunity come into fruition. It’s taking each instance for what it is. Don’t try to give the data that you have any more relevance than it should be given. Sometimes if you have to go in with limited information, that’s okay too. Sometimes that can be refreshing. It’s actually a little bit liberating when you don’t have all the information because you’re going on truly on your woodsmanship, your instinct and your gut and being a predator. For me, it’s trending in a way that whenever I do that I have my best hunts, the best success and ultimately make the best memories and usually the most fulfilling hunts still.

I like what you said. We were talking about Evos in the warmup. Being a predator, that’s a nice title for you.

I can’t lie, I took that. That was something I started embracing a year before or more so and then I embraced it when I went to Montana because I got some great hunt buddies, Luke Scheimer in Montana and this guy Matt Eagleson who has been on my Truth From The Stand hunting podcast before and my cousin, Buddy. These guys are some hardcore hunters. They get after it. That’s their mindset. Luke and Matt embody that and that was I picked up from them. When they hit timber, they’re in predator mode. That’s how they operate. It was a good thing for me to pick up.

You and I were talking before we started recording about what I do for a living as far as marketing or something. I get into digital data analytics and stuff. It allows to meld the two sides of me that I enjoy, which is the primal predator side of me. I like to train hard and hunt hard and stuff, but there’s this other side of me that I like to embrace which is the analytical and thoughtful side. For me, when I’m able to put those two pieces together and the right combination is what I have the best success, but it’s also when I feel the most fulfilled. That’s what I’ve been able to do over the past years more so and in previous years before that. It’s paid off with the sightings that I’ve had and the deer that would be put on the ground, the meat have been able to put in the freezer. I’m more than pleased.

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Where is the musician part of your life that end? You had the digital world, the hunting, the primal world. Where did that go?

It’s funny because folks will ask me about it because they think it’s a little of a paradoxical shift to go from a being a musician because they think of an artistic artsy guy or whatever. Historically speaking, I was into music and I do enjoy art and good literature and stuff. I don’t read as much as I should. I do enjoy good short stories and I have a couple of authors that I do like. For me, when I left the music world, there’s an aspect of the rush or the adrenaline that you would get from being on stage. For me, there was always parts of music. There was the creative, introspective side of music at least for me was where all the music came from. All the songs and stuff came from. It was me thinking about myself and dealing with your mindset, emotions and life, those types of things.

There was the external side which was bean on stage component of it, which was the adrenaline in front of the crowd and getting into that pump and that rush. It doesn’t seem as crazy of a marriage a lot of people might think. I had it all growing up, so it wasn’t something that was born to me. I get the same feeling in a treestand or when I’m hunting a bull. Whenever I see that animal approach, that same adrenaline rush I get as I did when I was on stage as a musician in front of 5,000 people. It’s the same exact feeling. For anyone who says, “I’d love to feel what it’s like to be on stage.” We don’t have to be on stage, go sit on a treestand and watch that eight-point you’ve been watching three years, two years, two weeks or whatever it is, approach your treestand and you’re going to get a shot opportunity. That’s the same exact feeling.

The reflective kind of introspective part is hunting has a deep meaning for me. It’s one of those things where it’s part of my DNA. It’s one of those things where I feel the most at home when I’m in a treestand or in the timber. I have a lot of respect for the animals that I hunt and reflect on everything that led me to the mode of releasing an arrow. I appreciate whenever I’m able to watch quietly and the deer, elk, whatever animal I’m hunting doesn’t notice that I’m there and they let me be part of their world for that five minutes that we’re together. It’s impactful to me. The aspect of harvest in an animal is the gravity of that is not lost on me. That’s the moment where I like to reflect too. It’s not that I’m sad or remorseful necessarily because I chose to make that move, I chose to release that arrow. There’s an element of gravity that I recognize how much that animal actually gave and sacrificed in order for me to put that meat in my freezer. That’s how I connect the musician side of me with the outdoor side of me because to me there’s not that big of a disconnect as most of things.

Did you write a lot of your own songs?

Yes, everything was original and we had a deal and put out record and stuff. It was a good time. I got to experience all of it without self-incriminating myself.

We’ll leave that there or leave it on the bus as they say. Tell the readers, one, about Truth From The Stand and why you started the podcast.

It’s called Truth From The Stand Deer Hunting Podcast. They can find it on iTunes, Stitcher or Google Play, anywhere that you would usually find podcasts. It goes along with my blog, which is TruthFromTheStand.com. It originated as a blog initially, which was probably going on for many years. I was reading some articles. I was enjoying that and it was a way for me as I was mentioning being connected to the outdoors is something that’s important to me. It was a way for me to connect a little more deeply than being in timber during hunting season or more frequently I should say. I did that for probably about a year and it was one of those things where writing for me is time-consuming because I don’t claim to be the world’s greatest writer. It does take me time to research what I’m going to write about. It takes me time to actually articulate my words in a written form.

I had a lot of questions about things, hunting-related. It would be great if I could get answers to some of these questions from some of these guys who I read about or listen to, who I think are these phenomenal hunters. I thought to myself, if I have these questions, I’m sure there are people out there like me who have the same questions and probably are a little too intimidated to ask an uncle, brother or whoever, another hunter that they meet somewhere or whatever. I have a high threshold for rejection. I was okay with being the one to go ask the questions and possibly be told no. From my video and music background, I’m more comfortable behind a microphone than I am necessarily behind a pen or a pencil. That’s how the podcast started. I wanted to get answers to some questions I thought that might be helpful for some other folks.

The flipside of it was living where I live. I was relatively new to this area because my wife and I lived in Florida for about ten years and we moved near the Philadelphia area. We didn’t know a lot of people and I definitely didn’t know a lot of hunters. I still didn’t know too many hunters that are around this area, few more than I did. That was the way for me to also connect with other hunters. I want to find people who are interested in the same things I was into. That was the way for me to start connecting with a larger group, a brotherhood if you will. I have been able to do that. I’ve met some great people like my cohost, John Mulligan. He’s got the Arrow-Wild TV show and he came on as my cohost. We actually met by chance at the Harrisburg Outdoor show. We struck up a conversation, hit it off and then before you know it, we’re buddy’s host in a podcast together and sharing stories. What you would typically think of two hunters from different parts of the country meet each other. That’s why I started. It’s been a great ride and I love doing it.

WTR 479 Clint | Stand Deer Hunting

I love interacting with all the folks who listen on social media and stuff. I was at the Harrisburg Outdoor show and got to meet a bunch of folks who came by access booth and hang out with us and got to meet some folks. That’s always great. It’s always nice to get feedback whenever someone sends you a message saying they pick something up from your podcast or something that one of your guests said or that you said and helped them this hunting season. For me, that’s the ultimate. If I was able to help someone have success or a great experience in the outdoors and help further their connection with the outdoors that I feel like I have given something back.

Thinking about your podcast, this is going to be hard, but if you had to take one podcast, “That was so good of exchanging knowledge,” sharing the knowledge. Not so much the technique, it could be a technique. The one podcast because I want my readers to pick it up and go ahead and read it.

That’s a good one. I never thought of that before. I’m going to cheat, Bruce. I’m going to give you two.

You’re going to pass. It’s okay.

It’s from two different perspectives. One, from a straight hunting knowledge. One that I learned a ton from is he has actually become a good friend. His name is Greg Litzinger. I went back and re-listened the part of that podcast. I don’t listen in own podcast often. I’m not that vain. Greg drops a lot of knowledge in that podcast. He’s from New Jersey. Some might know him on Instagram as the @Bowhunting_Fiend. He’s buck bed hunter from New Jersey in high-pressure public land. He hunts a lot of swamps, marshes and hill country. The guy literally scouts every single day. Having conversations and text messages with him outside of the podcast, he drops a ton of knowledge. To consider a friend and be able to text him, I’ll send him pictures about things that I’m seeing and stuff. He’ll say, “This is what I’m seeing, what’s your wind in this direction, what does the terrain look like,” and he gives me tips as we go. He’s helpful and he’s also a great archer. He’s won tournaments and stuff. He has helped me a ton with my archery form. Not only was he a great guest, but he’s a great friend and knows around good dudes. If I’m going to say choose one, I will definitely check that one out.

What number is it?

It’s 23. It’s called Hunting Buck Beds & East Coast Public Land with the Bowhunting Fiend is what’s it called. The other one that was one of my favorites. He’s a photographer and videographer. He does a lot of stuff with Jason Matzinger in the high country. I know he did a bunch of the videography. His name is Sam Soholt and he does the Public Land Bus that the readers might have seen in the Outdoor Life and he had a bunch of stuff on YouTube. We talked a lot about conservation. Sam is big on protecting public lands, not just out west but everywhere. He was one of those guys who felt passionately and deeply enough about it that he put his money and his own time on the line and built this public land school bus. He drove around the entire fall hunting out of it.

He was in elk camp with Matzinger in jeep camp and ramp camp and every kind of camp in that bus, filming out of it and stuff. When he recorded that one, he was actually in the truck with Matzinger because they were coming off the mountain and it was either the first or second week in elk camp. That was cool. He and John, my cohosts are good buddies and he came on to talk to us about conservation and what he was doing with the Public Land Bus and that was cool. As hunters and guys and girls who have any type of platform, I’m a small potato in the grand scheme of things. If we do have a platform and people are listening or they read a written word or whatever, we have an obligation to make sure that we present ourselves in the right way and that we protect the things that we treasure and that are important enough for us and for future generations. Sam is doing all the above in a real meaningful way. Not only should you listen in that podcast because I thought it was a good conversation. We should support him and any organizations that are supporting him in his efforts to continue to protect public lands.

I think it was Josh Honeycutt. He’s the editor for Deer Hunting on RealTree.com and he and I got into the exact conversation about the responsibility of every single hunter, young, old. It doesn’t matter. I thought, get in the game and do something locally. You don’t have to something nationally. You don’t have to make a big splash about anything but do something. Get involved with the conservation group and support those groups in your area. If we all did that, we’d have a lot more recruitment, I believe of new hunters, young hunters. These are people 30, 40, we both know that women are the fastest-growing segment in the outdoor world we live in and there are a lot of reasons for that, but we need to support all those people. What are your thoughts on that, Clint?

I 100% agree with you first and foremost. We all have an obligation to do something. Even if you do something small, it’s not small. You do what you can. I’m not saying you have to write the biggest check on the planet or whatever. It might be going to help clean up along the road somewhere or helping go to one of these watersheds. Around me there is a watershed and they’ll have a watershed cleanup day. Going to that, or support your local VHA chapter, your local QDMA chapter or whatever it is. I 100% agree with you and you’re right. Hunting recruitment is an issue. If you talk to the folks from the Quality Deer Management Association, I’m friends with Ryan Furrer who’s one of the directors here who oversees part of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland, Ohio and so forth. We’re actually going to have him on the show and talk about heritage a little bit because that’s one of the biggest things in spacing the outdoor community is that we’re losing hunters faster than we’re replacing them.

It’s liberating when you don’t have all the information because you’re going on your woodsmanship, instinct, gut and being a predator. Share on X

It’s probably our biggest challenge along with public land access. If you don’t have public lands for people to access, how do you increase recruitment? You need places for those people to go hunt. The other part that I will make mention too is that we all need to make an effort to not only introduce people hunting, but we also need to make an effort to make sure that we present hunting in the best light that we possibly can to those who don’t hunt. I know that we live in a world that we don’t want censorship. We have the freedom of speech which is one of the reasons why our country is great as it is. We have the freedom to say what we want to say and post what we want to post but there’s a consequence to those things. You have to be mindful that the audience that you are intending isn’t always the audience that is going to view or read the things that you’re saying or showing. That’s one of the big things we need to be mindful of is that we’re presenting ourselves the right way.

As we were talking before the show, I wrote an article that should be coming up here in the next issue or two of all the deer management or of quality whitetails in the QDMA magazine. It’s along those lines of how do you end roads with non-hunters and that was what the article is all about. I termed it Venison Diplomacy and using food and sharing of the game as ways to open lines of communication with those who are non-hunters. I noticed I didn’t say anti-hunters because not everyone who’s a non-hunter doesn’t necessarily support hunters an anti-hunter per se. They haven’t had the correct interaction. If you approach them with an anti-perspective, it already starts off from a negative angle. I would encourage those to approach it from a non-hunter perspective or non-consumptive perspective and try to figure out a way to open the lines of communication, to have a real dialogue to maybe change their mind. That was what the article is about. Within this particular instance, I was successful and I made sure that we had another group of folks on the good guys’ team.

I would like to call common ground. You reach common ground with people and then you go from there. Whatever that means to you, readers, find it with somebody who doesn’t hunt. Not that they’re in your face about you hunting, they just don’t hunt. Maybe nobody ever explained it to him, nobody ever took him. “Why don’t you come and hang out with me, we’re going to go shoot a couple of ducks or whatever.” It all doesn’t have to be the deer game hunting or elk hunting. It can be as simple go and chase some rabbits or squirrels.

You hit the nail on the head with two things that you said. You said that it’s not even young kids in terms of recruitment, it’s also those people that are in their 30s and 40s that would like to get out somehow but don’t have anybody to take them. They didn’t grow up in a hunting family, they don’t have anyone on their family that hunts and they don’t have any friends that hunt. They would like to go out and try because they have an interest in it but don’t have any way to learn how to do it. I have an example of that. There’s a buddy at work and to piggyback off the second point that you made, which is it doesn’t have to be a big game hunt. He’s showing a bit of interest and I’ve shared some game with him.

This past year, I took up goose hunting and duck hunting and I was able to bag a few and he likes goose. I was like, “I’ll bring you in some goose if you want.” He says, “Sure. Where did you get it?” I was like, “I got it, I killed it.” He said, “That’s cool. I didn’t know you goose hunt.” I said, “Yes.” We started to chitchat a little bit and he says, “I like goose. I might like to try that sometime.” I said, “Have you ever shot a gun?” He said, “Yeah, I’ve shot clay pigeons before or whatever before.” I said, “Have you handled a shotgun before?” He said, “Yeah.” I was like, “Goose season is over but if you’d like we can figure out time next year during goose season. I can take you out and get you into a blind and see if we can bag around food sometime.” He said, “That would be great. You’d take me out?” I said, “Sure. We’ll see if we can get you some goose.” He was elated that someone was willing to take him out.

The other thing that we can capitalize on is not just his interest. This is him as an example, but it’s broader than that. There’s a huge movement with people wanting to live healthily. One of the healthiest ways to live is to procure your own wild protein. If we can start to figure out in a smart way how to connect the procurement of wild protein on your own by ethical means as the way you provide yourself healthful food and nutrition for your family to those who that is the ultimate goal for them, then we already have an inroad or a bridge to have the conversation.

It shouldn’t be a hard leap necessarily, but again you can’t go in with fire and brimstone. You have to love hunting. You have to figure out what is the context in which this person is going to be willing to accept it and is there a way that I can communicate it. If you feel like you can’t, then find someone who can. You don’t always have to be the person that has the conversation. It might be, “I know someone who wants to hunt and would be interested in it, but I don’t know how to bridge the gap. Can you help me?” I’m sure you would be able to reach out to any number of hunters that you know or send me a message and say, “I need some help with how would I approach this or how should I approach this.” I’ll try to help you out.

If I can’t, then I hold of someone at QDMA and/or something and say, “There’s an opportunity here, how would you approach this conversation?” We’re all in the same team. We’re all willing to help each other, so don’t be ashamed or bashful about reaching out saying, “I need help in how to bridge this gap or how to have this conversation.” That conversation if we each have those, they build upon one another and the possibilities are limitless if we do that. Don’t think that you don’t play a part and that you’re insignificant because you’re not. Everyone can make a difference and that’s just one small way that we can each do our part.

Ayres has a podcast Living Country in the city out in LA and there are organic people all over the place. He says, “I get the best organic food. Do you want to come over and have some?” He feeds them venison or whatever. They go, “What am I eating?” This is 100% organic. There’s no drug, there’s no nothing. This is a free-range, this is everything and he tells them. They go, “Really? How did you get it?” “I killed it.”

If I’m going to dip into my marketing speak, there’s a consumer health trend and we, as hunters, should be capitalizing on it.

WTR 479 Clint | Stand Deer Hunting

Maybe you should write another article for QDMA. That’s a big point and people get it. Cameron Hanes is all over social media with his ability to go out and hunt and bring home the best possible meat he can. There are thousands of people like you and me. When I get an elk or whitetail, we’re even. It’s in the freezer. We are making spaghetti, lasagna and everything else that you can think of because it’s good for you. Isn’t that fun?

I like how you gave me some writing work. I’ll take it as a task. Thank you.

We’re having a fun time here. We talked about whitetails and we talked about how important conservation is and recruitment of those types of things. We’re going to talk a little bit about your gear and your go-to gear. When you went to PA, you didn’t have any cameras. You just had your gear. Let’s talk about your gear and why it’s all important.

For me, it starts with the stand especially for the deer that I hunted. I trust Lone Wolf Treestands. That stand specifically. I was sitting in an assault too, sticks and stand. I do a fair amount of running gun setups. I don’t hang a lot of stands permanently. For me, always hunting mobile is the way I approach things. Either the Lone Wolf assault or it’s the Lone Wolf climber and this instance it was the Lone Wolf assault. I’m one of these folks where I’m perpetually cold and I literally have almost a piece of hunting apparel gear for every type of season.

There’s one thing I always skimmed on was the clothing I was going to wear and always pay the price for it at some point during the season. I pretty much roll a safety gear that I usually don’t leave home without it, if I can help it. Whether I’m out west or whether I’m hunting here on the east coast or the Midwest. That’s usually what I’m using, especially I can’t say enough good things about rain gear. It’s literally the first piece of rain gear that I’ve ever owned that actually did its job. I’ve had plenty of pieces of rain gear that’s mark a rain gear if you will. As far as bows, this past year I was shooting a Matthews Halon. I have short arms so I like speed bow. I’ll likely be switching up the bow that I will be using. For the longest time, I had wanted to shoot this bow. Finally I got a chance of doing it. It sold me so I’m likely going to be switching to an Obsession Fixation for the season. Those things shoot super smooth. I got to shoot it at ATA. I fell in love with it. The Ramcat Broadheads, I’ve been using those several years. They’re devastating.

As I was getting ready to go out to hunt in Montana, I was doing a lot of shooting at distance out to 70 yards and the Ramcat actually would land on point with my target tips. That was sold me on the Ramcats plus the gaping hold that they leave. I try not to take too awful much. Every year, I see them I try to take stuff out of my bag and everything creeps the way back in. I definitely take all with me whenever I get into the timber. I don’t do a lot of trimming necessarily but if there’s one little branch you need to get out of the way or whatever, I usually take a tree hand saw. I make sure I have that because you’ll never know which is going to get into. I usually wear a variety of boots. It depends on the course of the year. Early season, I’ll wear a pair of solid hikers. That’s usually what I’ll wear on the rut when I hunt out west. I like those when it gets colder. I slip into a pair of my boots usually for rut and whatever the cold temperatures hit. That’s about it. I try to keep it simple, not too crazy. I try to take the necessities with me and let the chips fall where they may.

How much do you practice during the year with your bow?

I probably shoot three days a week. In the summer, I’ll shoot a lot of distance. Whenever the weather gets nice, I’ll start at 20 and 30 yards and shoot consistently there and once I’m happy with my grip, I’ll step back. Within a couple of weeks, I’ll be back to 50, 60 and 70 yards and that’s usually where my shot will start to take place for the most part through the summer and into the fall. Right now, it’s cold out. I don’t go outside unless if I do have to. I got about fifteen yards in my basement so I have a target set up one into my basement. I usually shoot every evening. I don’t shoot a ton. It will be nine, twelve arrows, maybe fifteen arrows into that target at fifteen yards. For me, that’s good practice because it’s one of those things that the target is close that you’re not so concerned about your aiming. You’re not concerned with your aiming to where I’m more at this point waiting to have a good release. I want the shot to feel good. I’m not super concerned whether I’m dead on with my placement, I’m just trying to make sure I’m holding hover and making sure that shot feels that it breaks good. That’s what the focus is this year. It’s more about trying to keep my form and my technique in shape. That way in the summer, I’ll start working more on my accuracy and grip.

Let’s push it out to come out of my way. You’re a PA guy. You’ve got some friends in Montana and your brother, cousin or whatever all of a sudden decided, “I’m heading out west. I’m going to go chase 800-pound whitetails or bigger.” Tell us the story of that, I want the background because I get emails every single week, “How can I gear up and why should I hunt out west and how do I hunt out west?” and all of those types of things. That’s what I like to hear.

For me, it was one of those things that I always wanted to do. I call them my adventure hunts. I try to do at least one if not two adventure hunts a year or I go somewhere else. Going out west was always something I wanted to do. I’ve been to Alaska before with my dad. He has hunted elk in the past and it was something I always wanted to do and I had the opportunity to go. A bunch of my buddies goes out every year and they invited. One of our buddies lives out there and it was some annual trip they make. These guys are pretty hardcore, so I knew to get myself into quite a trip. It was two weeks. We are going to be in canvas tent in the mountains and there’s going to be a lot of hiking. I trained hard to get ready. I work out regularly anyway, but I upped the ante to make sure I was in good shape to handle the elevation and stuff. We got out there, packed in, got to the mountains. The trip started off good.

There’s a huge movement with people wanting to live healthy. One of the healthiest ways to live is to procure your own wild protein. Share on X

We spotted the bulls the first day and we got into their bedding area and got on two of them. We couldn’t get a shot opportunity. This particular area seems they were drying up. My buddy, Luke, said he hadn’t seen that much pressure there ever as long as he’s been hunting. It seems there’s a lot more pressure there this year than had been years passed. The bull shot down on us and the weather is hot. The first couple of days probably didn’t help. All of a sudden the big snowstorm came in and the temperature dropped and we thought that would get the bulls cranking and didn’t. We put in a lot of miles, probably doing on a low-end I’d put an eight and the high-end would be fifteen. We were probably putting in around twelve or so every day.

We ended up switching areas that we were going to because we weren’t getting any action where we were at. I did have a chance to draw back on two mule deer but I didn’t get the job done. I lost light and I got drawn back on them. I had to put a track on for him or put a stock on him. I ran out of daylight. I needed probably another hour of daylight to catch up to him, but that happened. Obviously, we were looking for some bulls and there’s this one mountain range that my buddy, Luke was like, “I don’t go here all the time, but I feel like we should head over there now because I don’t know how much pressure it’s going to have.” I was like, “Sure,” because it’s a hard area to get into. It’s a walk-in only type of place, typically not a lot of guys. We went there, got in and there was four of us. Luke and I broke up, went to one area, and my cousin and our friend went to another area. We had to walk this dark timberline. Once we get above the timberline, there were a bunch of sagebrush and got through that. There was a scree point at the top. Once you crest that and got down over the other side, there was another sagebrush area and then into a bunch of dark timber. There was a big drop off and it was nasty steep in there.

We got down there. We started bugling and calling and we got a bull to respond right away, not just one but we ended up getting three to respond. We felt the one right directly below us is the herd bull and we felt the two other bulls were satellite bulls. We called it from that position for a little while. The herd bull wasn’t making a move and could hear he had cows with them. We knew he wasn’t going to go anywhere. The bull that was down to the right of us, he wasn’t game at all. He split. I don’t know if he saw he was going to get his rear end kicked by the herd bull or what, but he took off. He wanted no part of that.

The one that was off to our right, he was gaming, he was sporty. He would come in and we could hear him get a little closer. We would give a call to him and he would back off. He was responding to cow calls and he would only commit to 80 yards. It was the closest he would come. It wouldn’t come any closer. We were getting close to the end of our hunt. We were there for two weeks. We hunted for eleven days because we had three days of driving and stuff. This is maybe the ninth or tenth day that we were there. Luke and I were like, “Let’s go for broke.” He was, “I’m going to call.” Every time I call when he bugles to us, they were going to run at him because he wouldn’t be able to hear us while he was bugling. We would call, he would bugle and we run. We would sit and we would call for a little bit and he would quiet up. We would listen to him, he would make a call and he would be a little further away. We would call back to him, he would bugle back and we would take off and run. We did this probably 40 minutes trying to cut distance.

We finally got to a point to where we probably were inside that 80-yard ring of his. We broke his comfort zone if you will and we got far enough away from where that herd bull is at. We cow called to him and he was coming, he was getting closer. You could hear him. It sounds he’s at 60 or 70 yards away from us. Luke lives in Montana. He grabs me and he says, “I’m going to walk behind you and set for a calling sequence. You stay here while I’m going to try to draw him in past you.” I said, “All right.” He said, “I have the rest of the season of the hunt out. I need to get one now.” He goes to turn to leave and I turned around and looked into the timber. I grabbed a hold of his arm and I was like, “Don’t move.” He’s like, “Why?” “He’s standing right there.” He was 40 yards away from us. He would come in on a line. The bull is approaching us coming in. I’ve never seen one that close before. It’s huge. I’m excited, of course. For a second there, I almost forgot what to do. I was in awe of how big he was and how cool an animal it is.

As he is approaching and getting a little closer, Luke was standing directly to my left. We were literally standing right next to one another, maybe only two feet between us. There was a shooting lane right in front of him and there’s a shooting lane right in front of me. He was splitting almost the two of us. As he is getting closer, we were both trying to draw back and he is maybe at 30 yards now splitting the distance between us. We both go to drawback. He picks his head up and looks at us. Luke is at full draw and I’m stuck in mid-draw. I didn’t get my bow all the way back and he is looking right at me. I’m like, “You’ve got to be kidding me.”

We’re 30 yards away from the bull. One of us is going to get shot. If he’s going to bust me because I didn’t get my bow back all the way and I’m stuck in mid-draw. I shoot a 65-pound draw. I’m holding all of it and trying not to move. For whatever reason, he put his head back down. As soon as he put his head back down, I got the bow the rest of the way back. He made two steps to his right, which put in closer to Luke and then he turned to his left to give Luke his right shoulder. As soon as he did that, Luke let it rip and he put right to the ten-ring. He shot him once. He hit him, the bull wields, broke the arrow off and strutted away limping a little bit. He didn’t run. He didn’t know what happened. He walked maybe 30 yards and wobbled, fell down, hit the ground and that was it. He was dead on his feet.

When we butchered him, we pulled the heart out and the arrow was still stuck in the heart. We ten-ringed him and that bull was dead on his feet. We’re pretty excited. I wished that was the end of that story, but Luke didn’t take a pack. I did because he said it was no pack Sunday. He said if we don’t take any pack or gear and we’ll kill because we don’t have anything to carry it with us. I took my pack in. I was like, “You’ve got to be kidding me.” We took some pictures and stuff. There was snow in the ground. We got a bunch of snow a couple of days before that. We got over and it was getting dark out. We were like, “It’s nice and cold. Let’s get his hide off and we roll it off at one side. Take the front shoulder and the rear quarter off and pack that out. It’s cold enough over the night that the meat will be fine.”

He was like, “We will come back tomorrow and finish the butcher job.” He takes the hindquarter and puts it in my pocket. I’ll take the pack since it’s heavier and I didn’t bring a pack. I don’t know who won this deal because I ended up having to carry the bloody shoulder out on my shoulder and he got the pack even though it’s heavier. I think I’d rather have the pack. It’s pitch-black out now. I get my headlamp out and we’re getting ready to walk out. We take fence steps and my headlamp dies. We’re 2.5 miles in. We got a straight climb up for about a mile and a quarter and then a straight down another mile and quarter. I don’t know what’s worse. The down is worse than the up. It was in the snow. We were pitch-black and couldn’t see. We finally got back to the truck and I want to kill him, but looking back it was a good memory. It’s the fun that you hate at the moment, the fun that you’ll like because you like to tell the story.

Let’s talk about a couple of things. One, conditioning. Just share with people how arduous the Rocky Mountains are. I don’t care what state you’re in. It will kick your butt.

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I’m a workout and health nut to begin with. I don’t recommend anyone to go to this extent, but I cleaned up my diet before I went. I eat clean anyway, but I went super clean, no grains, no sugar, no nothing for probably four months. That’s the diet that I eat now anyway as normal. I do a lot of weight training, high reps low weight and I did all my workout. I would do Muay Thai and Brazilian jiu-jitsu, fight training that I would wear a 30 to 40-pound weighted vest while I did it. I would do all my cardio as well, sometimes high-intensity cardio what would be reminiscent of what you do on CrossFit. I would do that with a 40-pound vest on. I was also running three to five miles and during runs I would wear a 40-pound weighted vest as well. That was my workout routine and I was in probably the best shape I’ve been since I was a teenager, if I’m being honest. It got me in good shape.

I didn’t have any problems with the elevation. I notice probably the first two days and then after that I was fine. It was because I made sure to pay attention to my cardio and my training before I go out there. Like I said, I don’t think everyone needs to go to that extent. Just to give you some perspective, like the guys I was going out to hunt with, are pretty hardcore grinders. Luke lives out there and he works for the forestry service so the guy lives in the mountains and he is a mountain man. The guy runs Spartan races out there and crushes people in Spartan races. I was going out with a guy who not only does he live at the elevation, but he also is a workout nut and runs grueling mountain races and stuff like that. I was with a guy who had his life together when it comes to his conditioning. I needed to make sure I came back in one piece.

Let’s talk about shooting at 70 yards because folks, he may have a bull come out into a park, low light, and the sun is going down. There is bugling and you got them dead right, but you’ve got to shoot 60 or 70 yards. What’s your thought on that?

For me, my comfort zone was 65 yards. I was shooting pretty regularly at the 70 yards. If I had nothing but air and opportunity between me and a bull, I was comfortable at 65. The reason I see 65 is because I only have up to 65 pins and I was confident in gapping 65. I was not as confident gapping to 70. Because I had so much dropped in my arrow from 60 to 70, I could make that shot and gap that five yards with the drop of my arrow that additional five yards were something that I didn’t have a lot of confidence in. For me, you have to shoot what you’re comfortable. There are some guys who wouldn’t take a shot beyond 40, but I have to say if you’re going out west and you’re going to hunt elk, you’re doing yourself a disservice if you’re not comfortable about 50 or maybe even beyond. That’s at least my perspective. There are a lot of guys out there who’s more comfortable taking a further shot than that. That’s not me. I cut it off at 65.

What’s the one big thing that you want to leave with my readers?

The one big thing would be if you have time and you’re interested in whitetail hunting, check out the Truth From The Stand podcast. The larger thing is that we didn’t intend this to be the main topic of discussion when we set out on our discussion, but everyone can make a difference in conservation and making sure that we continue to have the privilege to hunt. I think everyone needs to be mindful that they can make a difference no matter small or how big. The public lands are important to all of us and the ability to be able to access them and continue to have the privilege to hunt them is important to all of us not all of us currently, but even all of us who haven’t started hunting yet for the future generation.

When we make decisions about things whether what we’re posting and what we’re saying at the conversations that we’re having, I think that we should always keep that in the back of our mind that it is helping the future of our heritage. To be truthful, there’s 6% of us in the US hunt. There’s 94% of us that provide us or allow the privilege to hunt. I don’t think that we should feel entitled that it’s something we’ll always or should be granted to have. We’re provided this privilege by the grace of the 94% who don’t hunt. I think that we need to keep that in perspective.

With that, thank you on behalf of thousands of readers across North America. I want to thank you for being a great guest.

Thanks. I appreciate you have me on. I appreciate your readers giving me the time and good luck to you this season coming up and stay warm.

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