#484 Backwoodslife With Michael Lee

Amateur hunters can now get a preview of what to expect and how to prepare for their first hunt through various mediums. Michael Lee, co-owner of Backwoods Life, talks about how technology has evolved from the moment they decided to film their hunts to where they are now with their company. In this episode, he advises on the correct way to use social media to promote good hunting practices and touches on the different variables associated with hunting. Michael also gives a rundown on his experience of turkey and whitetail deer hunting.

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Listen to the podcast here:

Backwoodslife with Michael Lee

We’re heading down to Georgia. I’m happy to have Michael Lee. Michael was on the show when I was first starting out. He was gracious enough to listen to this guy and try to put a podcast together. Quite a bit of water is going over the dam. I want Michael to come on back and talk with us. Michael Lee is with Backwoods. He’s going to talk about a whole lot of different things. First of all, we’re going to talk about the TV show that he cohosts with a good friend of his. It’s called Backwoods Life. Michael, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me on.

I want to see what you’re doing because years of being on the Sportsman Channel and being right out there put a lot of content out in the marketplace, what changes have you seen? It’s got to be astronomical.

Everything is like it was since 2004. It’s been crazy. When we started out in the industry, we can walk around the Archery Trade Association show and talk to everybody there. We could have a sit-down conversation and all this good stuff. The whole industry itself has blown up. The technology involved in everything is going crazy. Video itself has evolved to astronomical levels as well. Social media has blown up. There are many things out there that we use in our business now that were not even imaginable years ago.

We’ve talked about patience. If you’re going to get into this business, you’ve got to be patient. Even though you have the best equipment, you can get your hands on everything you need but to put good content out, it still takes time for it to all come together. Let’s go back. What was your vision? What was your goal for Backwoods Life?

When we first started, our goal was to start turkey hunting in the spring, get some hunts on video and make DVDs. We meant to either sell those or give them away. It was all more about getting our hunts on video than it was on TV and growing to what we’ve become. It’s mind-blowing.

What type of equipment did you have?

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Sony Hi8 video cameras that recorded these mini DVD tapes. What we would film hours of tape is now on one SD card in our cameras.

I don’t know what those Sony cameras weigh, but they were more than 1.5 pounds.

The ones we started with were small but now the cameras are still not little. There are a lot of people out there that use small cameras to video on. They work great but we still stick with a little bit larger camera that have more functionality for what we need to get top quality. We’re videoing everything at 4K. It’s crazy when you go back and watch it, how clear and awesome especially with turkey season around the corner to get the colors of the springtime. An old guy would come in with red, white and blue hat up there ten yards all strutted up. It’s awesome that they are able to put that stuff on film.

You think about what you’re capturing, put it all together and put it on your show. Everybody knows and watches Pursuit Channel, Sportsman Channel and Outdoor Channel. All of a sudden, you’re sitting in that blind and that devil is coming in. It’s almost like you’re part of it. That’s how good the content is now.

There are a lot of great shows out there. A lot of people are doing great video, post-digital videos and broadcast on TV. The quality that people are going after now is great. We’ve got guys, ourselves including, that are running two or three different cameras on a hunt where you’re getting all these different angles. We got these birds coming in, decoys. It’s turned into something that’s cool for me to watch and see how much effort goes into getting phenomenal videos. It’s almost like a little bit of a contest to who can one-up the next guy with the quality of the hunt. At the same time, I have an old school philosophy. I don’t have to get award-winning footage to kill a turkey. He comes in, he gets in the death circle. It doesn’t matter to me about the risk. We’re going to have a good time.

A couple of times I’ve watched some guys film. The guy wouldn’t shoot a buck because a cameraman couldn’t get on the buck. I’m going, “I could never do that.” I understand it, but I couldn’t do it.

That’s a hard situation to be in from our standpoint. Our number one goal is to try to get the top quality video to use, especially when you hunt with an outfitter. If you don’t get to hunt and you don’t get the shot on video, that’s tough. We’ve fortunately not been faced with that situation many times but it has happened. We did let some get away. That’s the choice we made. That’s not saying that everybody, anybody would do that. No regrets. You keep pushing forward. It’s going to happen sooner or later anyway.

One question, you said you’re set up with three cameras. That’s for turkeys. How would you do that for whitetails?

I want to say that it’s more of the POV-style cameras like the Go Pros and maybe a DSLR camera. We’ve got our bigger, primary camera that’s going to get those to show their footage. We may have some cameras like a Go Pro or a Garmin attached to our bow or our gun. We may have it over on a tree limb on the side. It’s about how much time we have and what the setup is like to be able to pull off those different angles.

You’re not saying you have an overlooking triple set?

No, not at all. A lot of times, it’s just the hunter and a camera guy.

Thanks for clarifying that. My knowledge of what you guys do in the field is limited to the end product. All of us are amazed when you see some of the footage that these guys and gals are putting out. It’s part of who we are as hunters and part of the memory that we can relive. I think that’s why many guys have a little handheld camera to document their own hunt. They’ll never be on the Sportsman Channel or Pursuit Channel. When they go home, they’re sitting and watching it with their friends. If they miss, they miss. Is that how you started out, making movies for your crew?

I’ve been a semi-perfectionist and have a little bit of OCD inside me. I want to keep pushing for the best that we can produce. Even when I started out, before Kevin and I met and started the show, I had a little handheld cam recorder. I’m videoing my deer hunts but I was always critiquing that and trying to get better. I had a vision of a little bit more than a home movie. I never thought that we would be doing what we’re doing with the graphics and the editing. Kevin does all that is role as the main producer of the show per se. He does a great job. His background is in that. That’s what he went to school for. He’s top-notch.

There are more or less 1,000 people reading this. What are the three things you’d say if they get into this game and want to do it themselves, what would you recommend they do?

Don’t even try. It’s tough. It’s one of those things where there’s no grip, no footprint and no step-by-step process to do this. You’ve got to find your niche. You’ve got to dig in and do your thing. There are a lot of great people out there on TV. Everybody’s got a different story. Everybody’s coming up through a different path to get to where they are. It takes a lot of time and money to get everything going. The equipment, editing and air time are expensive. At the same time, you’ve got to be able to contribute not just financially, but your time yourself. People think you just got a camera guy that you go sit in the tree with and all you do is go hunt all the time. It doesn’t work that way. You’ve got to get in touch with these companies. You’ve got to have something of value to bring to the table for them to get their attention. You can’t just show up going, “I’ve killed a bunch of big deer. Why don’t you come help me pay for my bills for this show to start?” It’s doesn’t work that way.

You mentioned ATA earlier. I’ve been there a couple of times. It’s amazing how many people say, “This is what I’ve got and this is what I can do. This is how I think I can help you.” How many of those people don’t get a sit-down? They’ve got good quality stuff or concept.

There are many outlets nowadays. We’ve got lots of podcasts and television outlets. You’ve got Instagram outlets, YouTube outlets and Facebook brands. You’ve got many different mediums out there. You still have old school print ads. You’ve got a conglomerate of things out there for companies to utilize to reach an audience, promote their products and let everybody know about their brand. It’s hard to find things that, from an advertising standpoint, works the best. You’ve got to go out there and try different things. It’s supply and demand. That’s number one, and then it’s the relationships over that. Just because a company’s got a hold of Phil over here, it doesn’t mean you can walk up, get a meeting, sit down with them and everything’s done. People do their homework. If they know another company that may know who you are, they’re going to call and do a background check on you. Did they do a good job? Did they do what they say they’re going to do? Where’s the value there? It’s a big industry, but it’s close and tightknit. You’ve got to get in there, roll your sleeves up and do a bunch of hard work.

On the filming side, what’s been the biggest challenge for you?

There are a lot of challenges you run into but they’re consistent as far as fulfillment for why you’re hunting. For you and the camera person, it’s keeping that quality up at a certain level, not just with equipment but as far as getting the footage itself. That’s challenging. Deer come in the wrong way and the turkeys don’t cooperate. More things that go wrong than right as you’re videoing your hunt into the mix. I don’t know how many occasions we’ve had where you’re covering twice as much then or your cameraman moves and a deer heard the stand creak or something like that. It’s nothing intentional. It’s not that guy’s fault. Things happen. It’s hard enough to do some of these things by yourself while you’re hunting, much less when you got another person and you’re trying to get it on video. I would say the execution part has been the most consistently challenging part of what we do.

Given all that and the challenge of filming and still hunting whitetails, I have a hard-enough time hunting whitetails by my lonesome. I don’t know how you do it because now you get two guys in the stand. Especially all-day sits, I don’t know how you guys keep quiet. There’s my question. During the rut with all-day sits, how do you do it?

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Honestly, I don’t sit all day a whole lot. I have on occasion. I’ll at least come out and take an hour or two breaks mentally. I’m not afraid to sit there and have a conversion while I’m sitting in the stand. I’m not one of those guys that sit there perfectly still and don’t move for hours and don’t talk to my camera guy. I’m there to have fun. If I’m not able to do what I do on a normal basis to have fun, sit there and shoot the breeze, cut up a little bit then I’m not going to do it. That’s what I’ve done for this long, I’m not going to change now. I’m not the guy that’s going to sit out there and have to shoot 170-inch deer which I’m not going to go hunt either. There are guys out there that are hardcore. They want to sit all day and hold out for 170 or 180 or nothing. Good for them. I’m not knocking that at all, but that’s not my thing. I’m going to go out there and have fun. If a buck comes by that cranks my tractor, I’m going to shoot him.

I like that attitude because I shoot deer that I like, pure and simple. That’s what I do.

Hunting was founded not for antler size, but for meat. That’s the whole root of hunting. If you want to shoot a four-pointer, a ten-point, that’s your prerogative as long as it’s legal in your state.

That’s one thing I think we get wound up on social media. If I put a big buck down, I’ll put it out there. It’s a little like saying, “Look at me.” I also put does down there and small deer that everybody goes, “What did you shoot him for?” “I’m going to eat him.”

I wanted to, as simple as that. One of the biggest problems with social media is everybody wants to jump on, “I’m a better hunter than you. Why did you shoot this? Why did you shoot that?” Who cares? A lot of people go out there and do their thing, you do your thing. It doesn’t matter. There’s nobody better than anybody at this. It’s a personal goal. That’s why I’m not a big fan of big buck contests and turkey contests. I’m not knocking that much but to me, hunting is not a competition. The only one I have to prove it to is to myself. I don’t have to prove anything to anybody else.

Take some of this to heart, what Michael is sharing. She was one of my first five people on Whitetail Rendezvous podcast, her name was Brenda Valentine. She said, “Bruce, remember this, it’s your hunt. If you want to shoot that deer, the legality and all that, throw that in there, shoot the deer. Don’t worry about what anybody ever says.” If you look at social media, at all these publications, that isn’t the case. I’m sad about that because you’re taking away from the kids. Every single kid isn’t going to dump a ten-pointer the first time in the woods. First, he’s going to probably shoot a doe, maybe a fork horn, maybe a spike, it doesn’t matter. That’s a trophy to them.

Not just kids, there may be some of my buddies that have never hunted before, never shot a deer, never shot a turkey. Who cares? If they want to shoot the first thing that comes out on their hunt with me on my farm, if you’re happy with that animal when it comes out, go for it. If you’re going to be proud of it, that’s all that matters. Don’t shoot something that you’re not going to be proud of. That’s what my dad told me. Even my dad, sometimes he’ll shoot bucks that may not have got in our farm. I’m not fussing about it. Did he get excited? He’d say, “Absolutely. That’s what I wanted to do, that’s what I wanted to shoot.” I’m happy. Life is too short to worry about what you’re shooting, what your neighbor is shooting or whatever. Everybody’s got their rules together, what they’re going to do and not do. I get it. What it boils down to is if you’re out there and you’re having fun, who cares?

You don’t want to add up your truck, your bow and your broadheads and your camo. In this guy’s opinion, we’re doing it for fun. We’re doing it because we’re out there, we’re doing it because it’s an adventure. Whitetail hunting in a 40-acre plot is an adventure because you don’t know what you’re going to see.

If you’ve only got a few acres to hunt or even if you’ve got 50,000 acres to hunt, it doesn’t matter. Go out there and have fun, do what you want to do. Stay within the law, of course. Create those memories that you’re going to have. I don’t like to hunt by myself a whole lot. I’ve done it for many years with somebody videoing, or myself videoing somebody else. I feel like if I’m not there with somebody to share it with, then the experience was not as good. I hunted in Texas one time with a good buddy of mine. We went out there turkey hunting. We filmed a few hunts, knocked a couple of birds down on film. The last morning we got up and we went down the spot and hunted together. We both killed a turkey that last morning and had a good time. He and I are the only ones with those memories. That doesn’t matter. It’s all about that moment and us having that to share with each other from now on.

That’s pretty remarkable because staying on social media, we’re competitive. There were times in my life when I said, “I had to do this because Jimmy Jones did that.” I’ll never forget, I when was in Iowa hunting. I shot a nice deer. It was the prettiest deer I’ve ever killed. The last night at supper, I stood up and said, “I want to thank you people because it’s about the joy of the hunt.” If you got to somebody’s farm and have to pay, everybody pays their money, but what kind of joy are you taking away from that hunt? The joy for me is just being with the guys, hunting someplace I’ve never hunted before. I shot a nice buck, left with some new friendships and the food was good. All those things added to the joy of the hunt. I would challenge all our you to go find that. Go find the joy of the hunt. Your tongue might be hanging out at a 13,000-foot mountain in Colorado and go, “This is joyful.” You could be down where Michael is in Georgia. Some of the places that are drop-dead gorgeous down there. You sit, take it all in and understand the opportunity you’ve been given.

“To each their own,” is the best way to put that. You can only hunt what you’ve got and where you’re at to hunt. If you’re able to travel to a different state, see different places, that’s awesome. At the same time, if you’re the only person that’s able to hunt your family farm or lease property or you have the permission to hunt property there, even public land, take advantage of what’s there. Enjoy it for what it is and have realistic goals. A lot of guys and girls want to know what they can do to kill bigger deer and do this or that. You can only kill what’s on the property. If your goal is to kill 200-inch deer, then you’ve got to hunt somewhere there are 200-inch deer. You may not have them where you’re at. Go with the realistic goals with the biggest deer you may see all season is 125 deer, then go hunt that deer. Don’t worry about what everybody else is doing and what they’re shooting. Go enjoy yours.

We can sit on a marsh, river bottom, hillside, or a ridge and if there isn’t a 150-inch deer there, you can’t kill them. No matter how hard you work, how long your days are, you can’t kill them because he’s not there. That’s why being a 365-year hunter will let you know what’s realistically on this land. Figure it out and set your hit list based on what reality is.

Outdoor TV may be a little bit to blame for that. Everybody wants to know what we all shoot on TV. I get it. I remember watching television before, when I was growing up. When I was a teenager, me and my dad were sitting around watching Realtree Outdoors and stuff like that on those CNN days. At the same time, that was our sense of reality for what is out there beyond where we were. That makes us have a little bit more drive to go and see those places.

I’m looking on your website at www.BackwoodsLife.com. The stats are blowing me away. That’s a lot of people.

We’ve been around for a while. Our social following is going up. We reach 200 million, 300 million people a year through all of our outlets. Be it on social media, television, digital distribution, things like that. We’ve been out there working hard. We’ve been out there hustling. We’re trying to find every little outlet that we could put our content out, whatever we’re distributing, so that we can reach and entertain people, make them laugh, see what’s out there to hunt and what we’ve been up to. It’s pretty cool to be able to reach that.

It’s astronomical that you touched that many people and they’ve had an opportunity to see your content, whatever that content is.

That could be anything from photos on social media all the way to actual full episodes on the network. We’ve got different mediums of communication. That’s the beauty of what social media allows us to do. It’s to reach many different people, people all over the world, in some cases. With Backwoods Life itself and hunting in general, we get comments from all over the world sometimes. “I’m down in Australia, I watch your stuff online. It’s awesome. Keep up the good work.” That’s what’s pretty cool to me. You took something that we started out in South Georgia, North Florida area and it’s become available to anybody on the internet, all over the world.

None of the major distribution channels on TV are in play here. This is all created by one social media, digital. You’ve got the Sportsman Channel but most of it comes from organic growth, correct me if I’m wrong.

We’re pretty heavy on Facebook. That’s where we started, when Facebook was getting traction. We spread that over to Instagram, Twitter, YouTube and all the outlets that are out there now that you can think of. We’re active on all of them. That’s how we reach many people. Honestly, that’s how we need to capitalize for the future of our industry. The age demographic from all of these different social platforms is different. The Instagram audience is different from your Snapchat audience. It’s also different from your Facebook audience. We need to be out there capitalizing on all of those, promoting the outdoors, promoting hunting, fishing and anything to get people out of the house more, enjoying the outdoors to create our future. If we’re not using these mediums to reach these age demographics, then we’re not doing justice for the tools that are out there to grow our industry.

Why don’t you review the social media distribution channels you’re on? I got Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. Is there anything else?

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LinkedIn, YouTube. We post stuff on Tumblr and Pinterest. There are many different outlets out there that we try to push all the different content out on.

Who does that for you? Do you have anyone in the office do it or do you guys do it?

You’re talking to the guy.

Do you ever sleep?

Eventually.

With my podcast, I post on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and Google Plus. I do that then I edit the show, I’m wondering what day it is.

There’s no rest for the weary in this world. If you’re going to go out there and capitalize, you’ve got to be hustling all the time, pushing what you’re doing. I’m a firm believer that some people look at social media as a “look at me” outlet. That’s the whole point of social media, so you can post what you’re doing so people that want to follow you, your family, friends, whatever can keep up with each other. That’s what social media by definition is. It’s grown to astronomical proportions now. For what we do, and yourself included, we’ve got a brand. We’ve got a product and we’ve got a business, if you will. The only person that’s going to be out there promoting you harder than yourself does not exist. You are your own best promoter. You can work with all these companies and companies promote you. That’s much appreciated. When it boils down to it, you’ve got to be out there hustling your stuff to do it. If not, you can’t expect people to gravitate to you unless they know who you are and what you’re doing.

You’ve got to own it. The thing I’ve been told a bunch of times is, “Bruce, if you want to make this thing go, own it and go and do it. Don’t get frustrated. Don’t cry in your beer. Figure it out. What’s it to you? What are you trying to do? What’s your mission? What’s your goal? How are you going to move your personal life forward? Do it.”

You can’t worry about what other people are going to think, that’s number one. There’s going to be people that are either jealous of what you’re doing. They’re not going to like what you’re doing. They’re just going to look at you as you’re trying to be in self-promotion. To a point, that’s true, but with that being said, you have to. If you’re going to create a brand, you’re going to build yourself up. To have any kind of audience, to be able to do what we do, to have our reach, to reach eyeballs for companies that you want to work with, you’ve got to go out there and get them. It’s as simple as that. Nobody’s going to work with you in the outdoor industry if you’ve got 100 followers on Instagram and that’s all you bring into the table. It doesn’t work that way. You’ve got to have masses now. Eyeballs are cheap to acquire through different advertising mediums such as Facebook ads, Instagram ads, Twitter ads. With that being said, you’ve got to go out there, build your audience, build your brand and build your demand. Then you’re an influencer.

If you’ve got a dream, everything you need technologically-wise is here. I started not knowing what a podcast was. I know what a computer was but that’s about it. We’re over 250,000 and growing. If Michael can go back years ago, I can guarantee you, he did not know all the potholes that it was going to have to go through. I guarantee there were technology breakdowns, snowstorms, flat tires, on and on. Here he is now extremely successful and doing what he loves. What is wrong with that?

Go out there and do what you want to do. If you’re just sitting around and you wanted to video your hunts if you wanted to have a podcast or something like that, go do it. Go start somewhere and work hard. Why not? Why sit around and wish that you had taken a couple of days to put some time into learning how to do something to build off of, to make yourself happier in life? Even if it’s not a career that ever develops or you never make a dollar doing it, if it opens some doors for you to go places or do things, acquire products or whatever the case may be for your feedback, why not?

Let’s get to the down and dirty, Bass Pro Shop, Cabela’s, wherever you do your seminars. Tell the people, “You’ve got to do this. If you do that, this will probably happen.” Keep it short and sweet.

If you’re going to go turkey hunting, the number one rule is to know where there are turkeys and go hunt. It’s just that one. Turkey hunting is not extremely complicated. The tools of the trade are a good patterning shotgun. Maybe you want a turkey vest or a turkey seat. You need a turkey call and if your state is legal, use a turkey decoy. I prefer to use the most realistic decoy as I can use right now, the David Smith Decoys. I’m a big fan of their Jake decoy. I feel a lot of gobblers come to that Jake decoy. I use a bunch of different calls. I use mouth calls most of the time. That’s what I developed and practiced. I developed whatever talent I have with that. Some gobblers have come into to die because of that. Get that up, try to find them where they roost at or where they feed. Get in between those two areas and be patient. That is the best thing I can tell any turkey hunter is if you do not have patience, you’re probably not going to be super successful at turkey hunting.

Is there anything else?

Don’t overcall. That’s another good tip. Birds are gobbling based on your calling. You got to back off. It’s got to come to you. You’re reversing nature whenever you are trying to call a gobbler in. By nature, the hen calls and goes to the gobbler. You’re trying to do a backward thing. He’s got to come to you. My historical downfall has been being impatient when a turkey doesn’t gobble at you. Usually, if you wait him out, he will show up at some point. That’s the hard thing to do especially when the bird starts gobbling. It’s a learning curve. You got to go out there and you got to make mistakes to learn how to get better at turkey hunting like deer hunting. The good thing about turkey is they move in the daytime. You got from daylight to dark to hunt them. They don’t move much at all at night.

They sit up in those roosting trees.

They fly there right at dark and they’ll sit there until the day starts to break the next and then they fly down. They’re not like the deer where it’s coming to my stand at night, coming in defeat at night. You don’t have to battle that with turkeys. You’ve got to be patient.

Without a turkey tool, just a regular shotgun, how far can it kill turkey?

It doesn’t take but one pellet to kill a turkey. You’ve got to hit him in the right spot. If I was going to go out there with an out of the box Remington 870 with the choke that comes in there you might have a full choke. With a turkey load, I would say at most probably 30 yards, somewhere in that range. I wouldn’t stretch it too far just because that’s what turkey chokes are there for, to make tighter patterns more effective distance out to 40, 50 yards. I know people that have killed in 60, 70 yards, but I think the average person shouldn’t go out expecting to be able to pull it off that far without the right setup.

Talk to me about the turkey shot. Is it copper-clad?

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Tungsten is probably the best load to shoot your Long Beard XRs or your Federal TSS load. Those are good loads. They’ve got a lot of power. They find too many things now. We work with Trulock Chokes here out of South Georgia. They make chokes specifically for those different kinds of blends, and those loads. They design choke shoot shells. The shell is designed to use number seven and smaller shot so they can have more shot in the shell and have longer range killing power. My goal, I’ve got a twenty-gauge setup that I’m working on right now with the Trulock Chokes. I’m trying to work up a load that I can kill one at 50 yards with a twenty-gauge and be able to go hunt with that.

Are you talking seven-shot?

Yeah, I’m looking at the TSS number seven. They also make some number nine. They’re good at patterning shells at longer ranges, too. I’m trying to work a load right now that works best. The problem we’re having with Federal TSS loads is they’re hard to come by. Long Beard XRs by Winchester is what I’ve shot for the last several years out of my twelve-gauge set-up. They’ve done well. I’ve shot birds 50 yards with them. My biggest thing about turkey hunting is I like to watch them strut into the decoy, the gobble will come in and put on a show. I’d say my average shot is probably twenty, 30 yards. That’s where that patience comes into play.

About size seven-shot, you get more pellets with sevens than you get with fours, twos or sixes. The mass is in your favor, am I correct here Michael?

With your normal lead shot, you’re not going to be able to shoot 40, 50 yards effectively with a great pattern with number seven. That’s more of a bird shot with lead shot. What the tungsten does is a harder, denser material that’s more consistent. Those are going to be more round, it’s going to fly better. You’re going to get patterns better at those longer ranges. If you shot with your birdshot number seven or eight at a turkey at 50 yards, you’re probably not going to do nothing but pepper the guy. It’s definitely not going to be a fatal shot. Turkeys, most of the time, are pretty tough animals. Headshots, neck shots are what it takes. You do not body shoot them because you’re not going to kill them. They’re going to go off and die later, probably from an infected wound. Those feathers are pretty tough. They got to go through there. Their breast meat is thick. That’s a big part of getting any kind of internal organs. That’s why the headshot is what we go for.

Thank you for that. If you have any questions, reach out to BackwoodsLife.com. They’ll answer some of your questions. Post a turkey up on social media forum and say, “I’ve got a couple of good tips from Whitetail Rendezvous.” Let’s roll up the show and talk about whitetail. Let’s talk about your first buck and your last buck.

My first buck ever was a spike. I got the antlers on a board that my dad cut out and put on for me in my living room sitting on a table behind the couch. It was about a ten, twelve-inch long spike. I was thirteen years old in Southwest from Georgia with my grandfather. He came out in a food plot, I made a shot and I was excited. That was my first buck. I’m trying to think of my last buck, I shot one in Alabama. It was a nice buck, a real big ten-point. I had a couple of cases off C2s on both sides. I had to kick her off each side. Probably one of my bigger bucks, definitely out of Alabama, maybe of all time. I have a sporting buddy. He’s up there pretty good. I’m proud of that deer. He disappeared. We didn’t have him on camera. Probably over two months from the time we had him early in the year before the season came in and he made a mistake there following a group of does across a little pasture. It gave me a good shot.

How did you know he was there?

I followed him the day before when I was coming out from hunting that morning. He’s standing on this pine hill and he would stand there looking at me. Honestly, I could have shot him off of the cart there. We were on a public road in the property. I could have shot him that way, but I didn’t want to do it that way. I wanted to get it on video and try to get good quality video. I went and tried to set up where I thought he was going that afternoon. I didn’t see him, I saw a few other deer. The next morning, I went I sat in the stand for probably an hour on daylight where I thought he might come that way because there was a field not too far from where I saw him. I didn’t see him. I was coming back out, hit the side of this pasture and saw different, smaller bucks. I looked across the pasture and he was on the other side with the doe pushing around that morning. We snuck around gotten setup. He pops out down this little bottom. I had shot on him in the woods, but the only shot I had was right below his jaw in the neck. I didn’t feel comfortable doing that. I had to shoot through a little narrow slot. I didn’t want to take a chance on a deer like that to make a bad shot. I went back down the ridge and disappeared. Luckily, he came out in the pasture and I was able to drop him out there.

You’re hunting private land, you saw a buck the day before. He’s going to be around. How do you figure he wasn’t mossing off the property?

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That deer earlier in the years was in that same area. I’ve had the philosophy that deer go back to what they do an early season, late season and back to the same areas. Historically around here, from what I’ve seen. If you’ve got a buck bright and early and he disappears, most of the time later he comes back to that area if you don’t. If he doesn’t get killed or you don’t see him during the peak of the rut per se this was later in the season. It was the second rut in that area. I knew he was going to hang around where he was at. That’s where he stayed. He’s back home now, so he’s going to be around this little stretch of woods through here in this area. There’s no doubt, I got extremely lucky. There’s nothing more to say than that. It’s not like I knew I was going to kill him or anything like that. I got lucky that he was at the same place two days in a row. The only thing I could figure is he was behind those does that were in that area. We do have a lot of does that stay in the same area all year long around here.

The yearling does will come in the heat but after the rut. That’s why the secondary rut, call it what you want, is a pretty good time to hunt because the bucks that have been chased off, killed, maimed or whatever, they’ll be back around the neighborhood.

I’ve seen deer around Christmas in that time frame. A doe will come by with four, five bucks behind her, just because it’s last few does that haven’t been bred or those that come in for the first time. They’re getting pushed hard. The competition is high then. It’s a good time to hunt. The only bad thing is there’s so much hunting pressure that’s gone on beforehand that that time of year there may be a little bit spookier as far as the does and stuff like that being around. It makes it harder. There’s less cover with a colder temperature. I like the colder temperature. It depends on a lot of variables that come into play later as you get in the season.

Michael’s gone through a lot of information. We touched a lot of things in whitetail hunting. Think about this. Pin the word variables. I don’t care if you’re hunting early season, pre-rut, rut, post-rut, and secondary-rut, there are all these variables that you have to make work for you. What are your thoughts, Michael?

Deer hunting is nothing but variables. Turkey hunting, too. In hunting, there are variables that you have to learn to adapt throughout the whole season, or through the whole hunt. The early season is different than the rut. The rut is different than the late season. It’s a learning process. It’s more about learning the area that you hunt and what they do at different times of the year. You’ve got a good home territory where the deer stay and they bed. You got a good spot to hunt. In the early season, they’re going to stay close to that area and go back and forth, as little as possible food sources to conserve energy for the coming rut. After the rut, they’re going to get back and stay in those bedding areas and go to close food sources as they can to start back up first thing. It’s all about learning your property. It’s learning what they do and what time of the year they do it. Fine-tune your hunting skills as far as call and stand placement, things like that. There’s a lot more to it than just getting out there, getting a weapon and going hunting. That’s exactly where you start.

Michael, we’ve been chatting for a while here. On behalf of thousands of people across North America of Whitetail Rendezvous, you’ve been fun to chitchat, have a little conversation. Michael Lee from Backwoods Life, thank you.

Thank you, Bruce. I appreciate your time. It’s a pleasure to catch up. I know it’s been a while. I appreciate your time as well. I hope everybody out there got something out of this madness.

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#484 Backwoodslife with Michael Lee

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