Looking for a great time to close the distance? Audrey Pfaffe, co-owner of Monarch Whitetail Nutrition, reveals the perfect timing in this year’s rut forecast. The lockdown period when the doe is in estrus is such a great time to do it because she’s tired and laying down, exhausted. And the buck is not going to leave her side because he’s kind of claimed her – he will get up and chase off the little boys that want to come and check her out too because she’s reeking of estrogen at this point. This is a terrific opportunity for you to try closing the distance, so go ahead! That big mature buck is there with her, and as long as she’s not moving, he’s not moving either! Many nutrition companies focus only on antler growth…but not Monarch Whitetail Nutrition. They know that big bucks spawn from a healthy herd, and by targeting reproductive health and proper body maintenance, and combining that with antler-building nutrients, you can be sure your bucks will achieve optimal growth, and your herd will be healthy and productive.

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This is part two with Audrey Pfaffe, Pepin County, MonarchWhitetail Nutrition. She’s going to breakdown how she and Andrew hunt the rut. In the beginning, in the seeking phase, chasing phase,the lockdown phase, in the post’s rut phase. Mature bucks are available to harvest, to put on the ground during these periods of time.She’s going to break it down to us. Sit back, have a note and paper, because you’re going to want to take notes on what this lady has to say, because she knows whitetail.

Listen to the podcast here:

Rut Talk Audrey Pfaffe Pt 2

This is part two with Audrey Pfaffe from Monarch Whitetail Nutrition and she lives in one of the prime places in the United States in Pepin County, just North of Buffalo County. There are a lot of large bucks, there are booner bucks in just about every single county in Wisconsin.In some places there are just more of them because of the terrain and minerals and everything else. Audrey, as we ended up the last show, we were talking about the rut and the different phases that you see and we’re talking about muzzle loader hunting after the rifle season. What I want to do is help people understand in Western Wisconsin how you and Andrew hunt the early season and then when it starts turning cold, how you hunt cold fronts. How you hunt the seeking phase, chasing phase, actually when they locked down the does and then the post rut. Could you start off with just the first weekend and the first week or so of the season?

We almost try to stay out of the woods in early season unless we’ve got a good one really well-patterned.We really don’t enjoy hunting early season that much. Here in Wisconsin, end of September or mid-September,it’s still 80 to 90 degrees out and there are still softball-size mosquitoes out there that are going to drive you insane. It’s not enjoyable to be up there for us anyway. If you do end up shooting a deer that evening, you don’t really have an option to let it lay overnight because it’s so warm. The meat’s going to spoil and it’s almost like wasting a deer. Early season, unless we’ve got a good one patterned, will stay out of the woods. We’ll just let them do their own thing and we focus on a lot of duck and goose hunting at that point.We will hunt afternoons from time-to-time, especially if we want to take a couple of does out and do some doe management. We’ll sit on basically just food sources. The middle of the woods is usually still thick. All the leaves are still on the trees. It’s still really green. You can only see probably ten to fifteen yards in the middle part of the woods anyway even with shooting range cut.

Basically, early season if we’re going to hunt, we’re hunting food sources and we’re hunting afternoons only.If you go in there early mornings, during early season a lot of the times the deer are still out feeding at that point because they’re going to feed when it’s cooler out, in the evenings and the early mornings and overnight just to get out of the 80 to 90-degree weather and away from mosquitoes and things like that.If we go in there in an early morning, a lot of times we’re going to bust those deer out of their food sources or we’re going to clash with them on their way to their bedding area from a food source.We just hunt afternoons only, and we want them to get out there until probably four or five in the afternoon because a lot of times the deer won’t come out until that 30 to 20 minutes right before it’s dark.

That’s the only way we really tackle early season. Once it starts cooling down and we start getting some nice cold fronts coming through, we usually hunt later afternoons, but we’ll get out there a little bit earlier, maybe 3:00 in the afternoon, 2:30.Especially if there’s a nice cold front coming through and the high temperatures are going to be in the 50s and 60s versus 80s and 90s. It actually worked out really well this past Sunday for my hubby. He sat two does in ten minutes from the same tree.Actually, I’ve never even seen it before. They’ve also made a complete pass through on the deer and stuck into the ground. His arrows were almost seven inches apart while they’re stuck in the ground. Literally, the does came down the same trail and we’re in the exact same spot when he shot both of them. He was pretty excited. He sent me the text message with a picture of these two bloody arrows side by side, stuck right in the ground. He was like, “You can’t make this up.”

One thing that happened on the farm that I’ve been blessed to hunt for so many years, Garrett took a 180 buck that he watched all summer, had him patterned,knew right where he’s going to be and the buck came right where he’s going to be and he shot him. What do you do if you have a Mr. Wonderful?We’re talking 150 or larger class deer and you know he’s there. How do you hunt him or do you just let it go and say, “I’ll catch him later?”

If he’s patterned and we’ve got a lot of trail camera pictures and he’s coming in consistently two or three nights a week that’s roughly about the same time period,we’re definitely going to get in there and try to get that deer. I don’t really know how it is in other parts of the country, but from where we are, you can scout all summer. We’ve got hours and hours of camera footage of velvet deer out feeding in the fields that we’ve tried to pen. For us it seems like when shed their velvet, they completely do a 180 and change up their pattern. If you can get on him while you can get on him, you definitely should. Don’t hesitate and be like, “I’ll get him later. He’ll be there later,” because there’s a good chance that he won’t be there later or there’s a good chance that the neighbor across the road also has pictures of him and he’s going to get in there and get him. If you have a good one patterned, definitely capitalize on it while you can. Don’t hesitate because there’s no guarantee that he’s not going to get hit by a car tomorrow or someone else is going to get him or he’s going to peel his velvet and be two miles down the road. If you can get him, get him. I wouldn’t hesitate. For us it seems like we’ve got them patterned and then they peel their velvet and then they split.

We talked about you’ve seen already some immature dear chasing does because they’re starting to get frisky and they don’t know what the hormones are doing. They only know one thing. They need to find a girlfriend. You said that’s starting right now, we’re at October 8th, 9th, 10th when that kicked in in your area?

That was on a Sunday that my hubby had a six-pointer chasing a doe. He was full-blown like,head to the ground and trotting after her. He said he was grunting up and stormed. He was chasing her in circles and circles and obviously this doe isn’t anywhere coming near.She just wanted to get rid of him but he will not leave her alone. I feel it’s starting a little bit earlier this year, but we have had a decent cold front coming through here in the past week and after Thursday it’s actually supposed to cool off a lot and be lows in the high 20s by the end of this week. Maybe the little guys are starting to get frisky because of change in temperature and the does are off on their own now that they’d check their fawns away and stuff. They’re trying to get it in before the big guys come in and push them out of the area. It seems like it started a little bit early this year, but it’s still fun to see. For us, it’s entertaining to see deer interacting and doing what they’re supposed to do. It’s fun for us.

One thing that I noticed and I put up on a report if you go to my Facebook page, I posted both there and Twitter, I watched the weather and even though I live in Colorado, I just put on Wisconsin and I just see what the weather changes. I knew that something was going to happen last weekend because of the differential. You get a 20-degree differential in temperature, 90 to 70, 70 to 50, 50 to 30, you get that large change. The deer are going to move and that’s scientifically founded.The deer are going to move so you have to pick your steps and just pick your stance. In a cold front, what kind of stance do you like?Over food plots or in transition areas or close to bidding areas? Where do you like to set up?

This is for me personally, I like transitioning areas a lot, because they seem to be a lot less wary about winter in a transition area.When they’re in a bedding area, they’re on high alert because they’re staying in one spot for a longer period of time so their guard’s up a little more.When they’re in a food source,they’re going to be in that area for a longer period of time. They’re going to be eating, they’re going to be doing stuff. It’s most likely there’s going to be more than one, so their guard’s going to be up.They’re going to be a lot more alert.When they’re in a transition area, it’s more or less they’re just on a mission to get from point A to point B and obviously their senses are great and they’re always aware of their surroundings and on alert.

It almost seems like they let their guard down a little bit when they’re just cruising through from one area to the next, because they’re not in that area for a long period of time. For me, I try to keep my stand 20 to 30 yards off a main trail, so that I can get a shot within a comfortable shooting range of them on that trail. I don’t want to be right on top of the trail because then I’m not going to have a very good shooting angles. I’m going to be literally right on top of them. It’s going to be a steep angle and they’re going to be more aware of my presence being that close to them. If I’m off the trail a little bit, I’m going to have a good 20, 30 yards to draw. They’re usually not looking 20, 30 yards to the left or the right of them. They’re usually looking in front of them and above them. Especially if it’s a transition area, they’re focused on getting to that food source or getting to that bedding area or getting to that water source. They’refocused on that versus the little trail they are walking on.

When you think of transition areas, do you take into account the typography of the area? I guess the question is how do you define a transition area?We knowthey have bedding areas and they’re going to feed or they’re going to go to the water at some time during the day. Do you look for specific topography to set up your stand? How do you choose your stand site?

We do a lot of early season or pre-season scouting. Especially in a winter time,it’sa great opportunity to do that because you can physically see their trails and their footsteps in the snow. You can see what trails they’re taking,what routes they’re walking and stuff like that way better than you can, obviously in the summertime, when all the leafy green forage and stuff is all grown up.Usually, a lot of time when we’re shed hunting or whatever in the spring, we can see, “They actually do come through here a lot more often or we thought they took this trail but it looks like they’re walking way more on this trail.”We’llscout early.We’ll figure out exactly where their footsteps are, where they’re walking, and then from there we’ll try to find a decent tree or a decent spot that would be a good setup 20 to 30 yards from that spot.

A lot of the times, especially in a rut,we love hunting ridge tops. It just seems like they just run in ridge tops a lot more than just being on flat ground or they’re usually down in the valleys that they’re up on ridge tops. That’s what we found anyway. I’d much rather sit a ridge top, right in the heart of the timber. It’s pretty difficult to get to. It’s off the beaten path by a lot, but it seems like they’ll run those a lot more in the rut then they will be out in just a cornfield or bean field or something like that. Definitely terrain has a lot to do with it. For the most part, just early season scouting and figuring out where the deer are versus where we think they’re going to be is what we try to do.

Let’s talk about the seeking phase. In your opinion, the seeking phase happens when?

Usually for us, it’s right around the Halloween. The does aren’t coming to heat yet, but they’re getting there. Some of the bigger does might be coming into heat because it’s based on weight for when they come into heat.This year’s fawns, if they’re born a little bit earlier or maybe if they were a single doe fawn versus a triplet, she’s going to be a little bit bigger and heavier. Usually, once they hit about 60, 65 pounds, they can start coming into heat. Some of the heavier does that maybe didn’t have a fawn this year, they might be coming into heat a little bit early. Usually right around the Halloween or just before Halloween is when we start to see a lot of chasing movement, a lot of seeking, and they usually don’t come into heat usually until the first week in November, maybe second week in November.

That’s a seeking phase. What types of stands do we want to be in during that time?

Definitely in the seeking, you want to be where there’s going to be the most amount of deer. What I’m trying to say is, if a ton of does coming into a food source, you want to be where those does are going to be because they’re going to be a buck magnet. If there’s one that is in heat or might be coming into heat, there’s going to be a buck on her. If you find the does, you’re going to find the bucks. If the does are still out in a lot of food sources, I would find food sources. If they’re going to be in a cornfield and they’re constantly coming in this corn field, I would sit off that cornfield just a little bit, maybe on a main trail that they’re taking to get to that cornfield. Somewhere where there’s going to be a good amount of deer and does congregating, hanging around and they’re going to be bringing it in the bucks. As far as I’m concerned, live decoys are the best decoys. If you can find a doe that’s in the area, I’d sit where that doe is going to be.

Then chasing happens. To me, once the chasing phase begins, all bets are off. You got to do one thing. You got to be in the woods. They sit during the chasing phase. Your thoughts?

Absolutely. For us, we found that it’s so sporadic and it’s so random where these deer could be.Like you said, all the bets are off. They have one thing on their mind and that’s find a girlfriend, get her bred, find another girlfriend, get her bred. That’s what they want to do. They really won’t rest until they do that. They’re only coming out in the early mornings and the evening to feed and then they’re going to bed during the day. They’re chasing all the time and you’ll never know when that big one may be coming by chasing a doe. They’re no longer just nocturnal. They’re no longer just early morning and dusk. They’re out and about at all times of the day and the longer you’re out there, the more hours you put in a tree stand, the better chance you’re going to have to have an opportunity at a buck whenever he may be coming through.

Let’s talk about where your set ups are during the chasing phase.Are there some sets that are they better than others or it really doesn’t matter, just get in the woods?

I think as long as you’re in the woods, you’re going to be all right, just because it is so random where they may or may not be coming from.For us, we found that if you’re in some thick brushy, almost a good hiding spot for the does that are trying to get away from the bucks, that’s where I would be. A bunch of our good friends are actually loggers and own logging businesses. They’ll come through an area and they log it and there’ll be a lot of big tree tops. It’ll be really thick and brushy and that’s where those does want to go because they’d been getting chased and basically beat around and exhausted by these bucks and they’re not ready to just stand in be bred yet. They want to get away from them and they want to hide and they want to just lay down and rest.

If we can get to a spot where we think it’s thick and overgrown and brushy and if there are a lot of good hiding spots, we’ll try to be there or just a little bit off of that. You feel bad for the does because they’re not ready to get bred, but they’ve been getting chased by every single buck in the county and it seems like once they can shake one buck and hide from him, there’s another one popping up ready to take its place. They’re exhausted and they want to hide and lay low. We’re going to go and sit in these areas that they’re not bedding areas, but they’re almost good hiding spots so that does can just catch a breather for a minute and get away from these bucks and try to shake them.

Audrey just said something important. It’s not their traditional bedding areas because you can identify them on your land pretty easily, but what I found is islands. I can remember in one year, there were three or four does of this fairly large cornfield, but it was deep and there were some rocks and other stuff so they couldn’t farm it. They left the trees grow up and brushy.

There was a few does all in there trying to get their breath and you could see them and it’s very interesting to look for those islands, safety islands or security islands or hiding islands. It could be in the timber as Audrey said, where they’ve done some logging, but they cleaned it up pretty good. There’s still some tree tops that they created. We’re not even talking about 200 by 200 square feet, just little tiny places where does just go, “I need a break. I’m tired.”How do you think that sounds?

You hit the nail on the head and it’s cool just to be in those areas because even while you’re sitting there and hunting, there’s no deer around you at all. There could have been an hour before you left there and that doe could have feed in that area right before you got there. Now, you’re going to have two or three bucks coming through and checking these areas where they know the does do hang out.Just because there’s not one there, it doesn’t mean there wasn’t one a little bit ago and these bucks are so going to come through and be checking these hot spots where they think the does were. It’s still a good idea to be in those areas because you’ll never know when one’s going to be coming through seeking a doe that was there.

Let’s talk about the lockdown or when the mature bucks, the big guys found one or two does,they’re in wherever hiding. I’ve seen them in the middle of just CRP lands, middle of cornfields. Basically, the does are laying down and they’re not 15 yards, 10 yards from him.

It’s such an exciting time. I actually do know a lot of people that don’t even care to hunt that period of time because I’ve heard them say it a million times, “The big ones are all in lock down. I’m not even going to go out.” For me, that’s one of my favorite times to be out because I think I have a lot of my dad in me with this aspect is I love spot and stalk. I just crave to do it. I feel like such a predator to be out there and to literally be the stalking them like a mountain lion or whatever and creep right up to them when they don’t know you’re there is just such a thrill. I did my spot and stalk last year and I closed the distance from 120 yards to 10 yards on this deer and by the time I get up to him and I’m just about ready to draw, it picks up at ten and it turns out that it’s eleven.

Obviously, I didn’t shoot it. If it would’ve been a doe, she would have been in deep trouble. Just that alone, just knowing I did that was such a thrill for me. During the lockdown period, if you’ve got the lands to do it on, if you got the amount of property that you can do a spot and stalk or glass on and try to close the distance, that’s such a good time to do it.That doe is not going anywhere. She’s tired and she’s laying down, she’s just done. That buck is not going to leave her side because he’s claimed her, but he will get up and chase off the little boys that want to come and check her out, too, because she’s reeking of estrogen in essence at this point.

Any buck within two miles was going to know that and it’s going to try to come check her out. If that big mature buck is there with her, he’ll get up and chase off little bucks all day, but then he’ll circle right back and lay down next to her. As long as she’s not moving, he’s not moving either. That’s a great opportunity to try to close the distance and just wait for them to stand up basically. I guess the first time I’ve really seen that happen, I think I was maybe seventeen or eighteen and I had this great spot out in the timber and it was during this lockdown period.It was one of my better nights in the stand. I must have seen seven, eight different bucks come by and the biggest one that was upcruising on his feet was maybe 128 points.

There are a lot of the younger bucks that we’re seeking the doe, that they weren’t mature enough to be the big boy on campus to get her locked down and to be down there with her.They’re all running it up and they’re rubbing on trees and they were sparring and they were acting tough,but this big buck, the biggest buck that I’ve ever had an opportunity at was laying down on the still and she was bedded maybe 70, 80 yards from my stand. I was there for an all-day sit and he was right next to her all day. I kid you not, they were bedded down for seven or eight hours. She did not move an inch. She didn’t flick an ear, she didn’t anything. She laid down for eight hours. This buck, every time one of these little guys, they’d cruise right past my stand, they’ll make a beeline right for her, he’d get up, he’d grunt, he’d roar, he’s not where he could chase him off.

He’s gotten in a little bit of a fight with one of them and then he circled around and be all bristled up and he laid down right next to her.I actually got to sit there and watch this all day.This awesome scene unfolds. Then right at dark, I couldn’t see my things anymore, it’s just way too dark to shoot anything, she gets up, just takes her dear sweet time,walks straight down the trail right to me to like 35 yards, perfect broadside,and he was right next to her. He had to be 116 inch 10 points.He’s just beautiful, perfectly symmetrical and we actually nicknamed him the buffalo, because he was so bristled up, so dominant and just chasing these little guys around all day. The body on this deer was just incredible.

We named him buffalo and he just took with her all day.The only timehe got up at all was to chase off a little guys.It was so fun to sit and watch that unfold. It’s one thing to watch the post andtell you about it on TV, but it’s another thing to actually sit in there and see it happen. Especially for them, they have no idea that you were there watching this awesome thing unfold. It was one of the better nights I’ve ever had hunting.

I wish that had been there. I can remember couple of years back, my buddy who has been hunting a long time, we got set up and everything and he had shot a doe. I said, “Okay.” It was during rifle season. I go up and help him and then all of a sudden, I see this buck chasing and I go, “Dick, they’re chasing” He goes, “What?” I said, “The strategy got a rodeo going on.” The poor doe,she’s got three bucks on her. There was one mature buck in there and he came out and took a breather in the field before he went back into the fray and I shot him. He just took a breath and the funniest thing is he just stood there like he’d never been shot. He went back, jumped over the fence and then try to reengage.

Obviously, he was dead. It was just amazing because I thought I missed him and I said, “There’s no way I missed him,” which I didn’t. I’ve never seen a deer. He just took the shot and didn’t flinch or anything and then walk back, jumped over the fence and went another 100 yards before he just dumped. It’s so exciting folks and if you haven’t seen it, just like Audrey said, she sat there all day and had this wildlife scene in front of her that you couldn’t, even if you video it, nobody believed you. They would.Just the experience and that’s what hunting’s about. It’s not all about the kill, the harvest. It’s about being out there. Your thoughts on just being out there, Audrey.

That’s all what really comes down for me. Shooting a deer is great and having the thrill of it, then bringing it at home and celebrating with your friends and family and talking about the hunt reminiscing. That’s all well and good, but that’s not what it’s about. Like I said before, my best day of hunting, I didn’t even pick up my bow and put my release on there or anticipate getting a shot. My best day of hunting was just being out there and being surrounded by all the action and actually watching nature unfold the way it would when there’s absolutely no human disruption at all.

I mean slipping in there and they’re doing their normal thing that they would do that most people don’t ever get to see. I just actually watched an interview with Chris Pratt. He’s an actor but he’s also an avid hunter and he was saying that if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound if no one’s there to hear it? He’s like, “You’d be there to hear it,” because to nature, you’re not there. Nobody knows you’re there. The animals don’t know you’re there. Nature does not know that you slipped in there and are sitting there so quiet and it’s just unfolding around you the way it would even if you weren’t there to see it, but you are there to see it.

You’ve put a lot of good information out there and guide. This is the second part. Audrey, how do people get a hold of you? Find out about Monarch Whitetail Nutrition. Just share your social media stuff.

I’m on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Facebook is Facebook.com/TeamDoubleA or Facebook.com/MonarchWhitetailNutrition.

Thanks so much for that. You got to the time in the show right now to get some shout outs to friends. Let’s give a shout out to your neighbor Jimmy Davidson. He’s got some good photos this fall already, so I wish him well. Give some shout outs to friends and neighbors and then we’re going to wrap the show.

Shout-out to my dad, Ken Peterson who got me into hunting. He taught me everything I need to know. I’m an only child.I’m little daddy’s girl, but I’m also the son he never had, which is why I go to Sunday school in my little pink church dress and then immediately afterwards, changed into my little muddy rain boots and my blue jeans and go feed cattle with him and then go hunting with him. It was cool that I got the best of both worlds for my dad as he always says. Shout out to my hubby for helping me continue this hunting journey. I’d hunt even if my husband didn’t hunt, but the fact that we get to do it together and hunt together and have strategies and game plans together is just awesome. I get to share my life with this man and I also share my ultimate passion in life with him as well. Andrew, I love you.

Shout to my friend Trevor Drier. He’s a pretty awesome hunter and the fact that he’s allowed my husband and I to hunt on his property, help him manage this property. I shot several deer on his property, so as my hubby. Thanks Trevor for letting us be a part of that. A shout-out to my mom for getting into hunting and actually wanting to get into hunting and experience it with me and especially that she’s figuring out that when I say, “Shhh,” it means we got to be quiet because there’s a deer coming and if I say don’t turn around because there’s a deer coming that she’s actually not turning around anymore. That’s pretty exciting. To my friends and family, love you all.

Thank you so much, Audrey Pfaffe, for being a part of the Whitetail Rendezvous Tribe across North America and we continue to grow simply because of people like Audrey that shares as she has these last two episodes. On behalf of Whitetail Rendezvous, Audrey, thank you so much for being a guest on our show.

Thanks so much for having me.

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