LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE:
. Five, four, three, two, one. Welcome to another episode of Whitetail Rendezvous. This is your host Bruce Hutcheon, and folks we’re in for a treat today. We’re heading north of the border and we’re heading to the Canadian Operations Outreach Coordinator, Rob Argue. Rob, welcome to the show.
Rob: Hi Bruce, pleasure to be here.
Bruce: Say Rob, I heard in Canada they speak both in English and French, so why don’t you give a warm welcome to the Whitetail Rendezvous nation in French?
Rob: Sure, happy to be on the show and great to talk with all the listeners. [French 00:00:48].
Bruce: So Rob, what entails what you’re doing for QDMA in Canada?
Rob: My position, it’s a new position in Canada. I only started a couple of months ago. So it’s an exciting time in Canada, this is the first time that QDMA has made sort of a real conscious or focused effort by hiring an employee in Canada, where my job basically is simply to spread the word about who we are, what we do, and try to create some branches up in Canada so that we can get more people involved with Quality Deer Management and just youth involvement. You know, all the good things that go along with what QDMA promotes in the States we’re hoping to expand north of the border.
Bruce: Explain branches and explain the Rat Pack?
Rob: Sure, like many other not-for-profit [inaudible 00:02:00] organizations, we operate at basically a grass roots level, so depending on the size of the area or your community whatever, there will be individual branches that will represent a certain geographic area. Each branch will have an executive, usually somewhere between 5 and 10 guys, people I should say, guys, women, whoever. And they have to hold a minimum of one fundraising event per year and one educational event. Educational events can be anything from sportsman shows to field days where people are learning about food plots or timber stand improvement, it could be trapping, anything like that. And the Rat Pack program is a youth program that the QDMA has, which is a great starting program for young hunters or people that are interested in deer or deer hunting. There are all sorts of resources that are focused at younger kids.
Bruce: And Hank Forrester is in charge of the Rat Pack and who’s in charge of the fundraising down at headquarters?
Rob: There are a few people. Tory Andrews is our membership coordinator. The fundraising kind of falls on a few different people. I mean, really that’s left to the regional directors, so in Canada my position is sort of a jack-of-all-trades. I do the job of regional director and then I also sort of do the work for some advocacy and some other roles that most regional directors wouldn’t be responsible for. But in the States, the United States is separated into separate regions and there’s a regional director for each of those regions who then is the go-between between the head office and the individual branches, so really most of the fundraising falls onto the regional directors who will then work with the individual branches to try to raise some money to support the program.
Bruce: Right now, I’m giving a shout out to Gary Gillett. Gary’s up in Calgary and he’s CEO and founder of Hunting Film Tour, which travels around both Canada and the States and shares 10 to 15 minute clips about hunting in North America. I just want to say that Gary raised his hand as soon as he knew more about QDMA and has got in touch with Rob to be involved and get involved, not only in the branches program, but on his land. He’s purchased some great whitetail habitat, but like a lot of people in Canada, and some people down in the States, we have predation problems, we have the timber hasn’t been managed correctly and the food sources in some places need to be supported or enhanced. So a shout out to Gary Gillett, Calgary, Alberta, and his company is Hunting Film Tour.
So having said that, Rob let’s talk your background and how you got this job and why you took the job.
Rob: Sure, my background, I took Fish and Wildlife Management in college. At a very early age, I decided I wanted to work for the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, so I got my education in Fish and Wildlife Management and then right away started working for the Provincial Ministry as a fisheries technician and then I got more into the law enforcement side. I was a Provincial Park Warden and then I was a Conservation Officer, right up until recently I worked for the province. I also worked for the federal government, your equivalent of the Fish and Wildlife Service, the Federal Officer up until about three months ago. Yeah, my background has always been focused on preservation of nature. My belief has always been in order to have a strong future in hunting it has to be legal hunting. It has to be accepted by the masses and if it’s regulated, then I think it’s a lot easier for people to accept, even if they’re not hunters, if they know it’s a regulated activity and there are people out there sort of monitoring it. So that was something I wanted to be a part of.
Going beyond that, the reason I left that and I went to QDMA is I think it still fits that same, I guess, my drive to protect hunting and to protect the natural resources. This is just instead of through law enforcement, this is through education and public involvement, which is always . . . I did portions of that in law enforcement as well, but when I first became aware of QDMA, became a member, the more I learned about them and read their magazine, I was attracted to them. They’re just such a professional organization, they have sound science and research behind them. I took a couple of their courses and it was actually after I took their Level 2 Deer Steward course, I actually approached them about a job in Canada. I saw what they were doing in the States and I sort of said, “I really think there’s a place for this in Canada and I’d like to help if I can. I’d like to be involved.” And so I more or less went to them and talked to a few key people and just after those discussions, we decided to give it a shot, and here I am.
Bruce: In 2000, Rob was named a recipient of the North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association Torch Award. Rob, congratulations on that because I understand that’s you’re voted by your peers.
Rob: That’s correct, yeah, thank you.
Bruce: And staying on that, their mantra is to protect the resource, develop professionally and those respected by his peers and the public. So I just salute QDMA for picking a man that has all ready stood and been counted among his peers, so well done, sir.
Rob: Thank you very much.
Bruce: Rob, let’s switch it up to what we talk about here in Whitetail Rendezvous. Let’s talk about whitetail deer and the health of the herd all the way from Quebec to all the way to Vancouver. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Rob: Sure, you’re right, I mean, there are whitetail deer in all of our provinces except one, which is Newfoundland. But we have whitetail deer from coast to coast across Canada. The deer herd, it’s tough to sort of give a review in general, just because it is such an expanse area with very different climates, very different pressures, and it’s just very different areas that the whitetail lives in across the country. But generally speaking we do have a healthy deer herd. It is not, I’m probably going to focus more on just with what I’m most familiar with which is Ontario, Quebec, even Manitoba, which is more or less central Canada.
The last couple of years, we have had some severe winters, I know in Saskatchewan, certain parts of Saskatchewan, their deer herd is down almost 50% from 5 to 10 years ago. Even Ontario not that drastically, but again it’s hard because the range, in northern Ontario with the northern limit of the range that’s probably true, about 50%. The southern part of the range, which is actually like south of Michigan and certain areas in the northern U.S., obviously they’re not affected quite so badly by the winters. But in general terms, we do have a healthy deer population. The numbers are not where they were 5 to 10 years ago in many regions of Canada, but I don’t think it’s a cause for alarm by any chance or by any means, but I do think it’s something we have to monitor and that’s hopefully where, you know, with a little bit of education and experience the landowners themselves can start to monitor their herds and decide, “Okay well, if the numbers are down maybe I’m not going to shoot as many doe this year.” They can see what’s going on in their own properties and then make their own management decisions as far as where they want that herd to go.
Bruce: Talk to me about the impact of predation on the whitetail herd in Canada.
Rob: It’s certainly there. I mean, we have lots of predators up here as far as timber wolves, coyotes, black bears, and again you really notice an impact when you hit those hard winters. Sometimes when you get the severe winters and the deer are grouped up that much more, again the predation level is even that much higher. It’s definitely a challenge up here. I don’t think it’s something we’re ever going to get away from. One advantage, I guess, we have compared to some people may be familiar with in the States is when I read some magazines talking about creating cover and that sort of thing to get away from predators. Most parts of Canada you can’t see in the bush 5 yards, 10 yards, so cover is not a problem. It’s just part of the cycle up here. I think it’s always been here, it’s always been a factor and I think it always will be.
Bruce: Let’s talk about the thought process that you hope to instill to get people to embrace the QDMA mantra of the balanced herd, the great scientific information and data that you collect and have collected and how that’s going to really impact and enhance some of the wonderful deer that you already have in Canada.
Rob: Sure. I think the bottom line comes down to taking responsibility, or maybe responsibility is not the best word, maybe taking some ownership as far as what’s going on, on the property that you hunt and that you manage. Traditionally, I think the public has always looked to government agencies, provincial governments especially, to manage the resource for them. Things have changed in the last, again I’ll say 10 years or certainly at least, in my almost 20 years that I’ve worked for the government. It’s not the fault of anybody, but just the funding is not there the way it used to be, the resources are not placed there the way they used to be, and the studies and the science just aren’t there the way they used to be.
So I would like to see individual landowners get more involved where they can either gather some of their own data, whether they provide that to the M&R to help them make their decisions or whether they keep it to themselves and they just make their own management decisions, obviously within the realm of legal framework that the provinces provide you. But just get people more educated, so they know what they’re looking at on their own property, saying “Okay, what do I want to do here? Do I want more deer? Do I want fewer deer? Do I want a more varied age class?” All these different things, it’s a matter of just taking a real hard look at your property, knowing what you want to do with it or where you want your population or herd to go and working with QDMA.
I mean, we have all the tools to help you get to wherever you want to go in that. A lot of people think we’re only about growing great big bucks and that’s absolutely not true. It’s we want to help the landowner do whatever they think they want to do on that property or land to make the overall deer herd healthier, stronger, and just in better shape for the herd itself, which will in turn increase hunter success and hunter satisfaction.
Bruce: Rob, let’s talk about the co-op programs and I’m going to ask you once again to flip it to the French after you state it in the English, because I want the people in Canada that are listening to this to hear in the French language what the co-ops mean and how you’re going to go about establishing them.
Rob: Sure. Generally a co-op is where you have several, as I just mentioned, the idea is to get individual landowners to take some ownership of what they want to do with the deer herd. Now, if you only own 50 acres or even 100 acres or smaller parcels, it’s going to be more of a challenge if the people that are on the surrounding lands aren’t in agreement with what your plan is. The more people you can get involved on a broader scale, encompassing more land, the better odds of your plan being successful are. So the more people you can get involved and the idea is creating these cooperatives where you get a group of landowners in a certain geographic area and they all agree to certain standards. You say, “Okay, in this area we have roughly this many does, so do we all agree that maybe we’ll each only take one doe from our property, or two does.” Or whatever it is and they come to an agreement. Again maybe point restrictions or certain age bucks, they’re going to let the bucks walk until they’re two-and-half years old and that sort of thing. The idea behind the co-op is to get . . . it’s the same idea as one property management but expanding it to numerous properties so that you have a larger land base that you can work with there.
[French 00:15:07].
Bruce: Let’s switch now to hunting whitetails and let’s share some of your experiences. I’ve got one picture so I know you’ve been successful one time putting a buck on the ground. Let’s talk where the hunting tradition in your life came from.
Rob: Sure, it’s actually not like many people. My parents don’t hunt. I didn’t come from a hunting family. I was always a fisherman as a little kid. We had a [inaudible 00:16:19] fish every day, rain or shine. So that was kind of my first connection with the outdoors. From there I had an uncle who I helped cut wood a little bit with and he was the one who actually introduced me to hunting and it’s one of those things that I always loved the outdoors and hunting was something I hadn’t been exposed to, but when I was, I don’t know, there was an instant connection there.
I loved the idea that to be with the animals that close and not just deer, but all the other animals that you see the birds and the squirrels and everything else that I truly felt like I was part of the environment, part of nature that I hadn’t felt before. So it caught quickly and then from there I hunted several years without shooting an animal and when I was 18 in high school, I went to Carleton Place High School, which is just outside of Canada’s capital Ottawa, and it was neat time to be there. Almost everybody in the school hunted. They basically closed down the high school, there were certainly no tests in the deer season because half of the high school was empty, everybody was gone deer hunting. I shot my first buck that year and it was 151 and 5/8s Boone and Crockett buck, 248 pounds field dressed.
Bruce: Oh, my goodness, your first buck.
Rob: My first deer.
Bruce: No way.
Rob: That was my first deer I ever shot at 18 and after that it, I don’t know, some people call it a sickness or disease and I believe it is, because my life changed after that and all I wanted to do was deer hunt, learn as much I could about deer and, yeah, that’s what started me off. Ever since then I’ve seen bucks as big or bigger, but I’ve never shot one bigger and hopefully at some point, some day I will, but now I actually have just as much fun I do some guiding as well. So I have just as much fun taking other people out and trying to get them those experiences and those memories that deer hunting is all about.
Bruce: Man, you were spoiled coming out of the shoot because I’ve hunted a long time and 152 up in Saskatchewan is my biggest buck. There are bigger bucks out there, in the States there are bigger bucks, I saw a 192 put on the ground in Iowa last year. And so in the overall, there’s tremendous opportunities if your focus is on big deer. But what we’ve found throughout North America is the hunt is your hunt and whatever you’re satisfied with, go ahead and get her done because at the end of the day that’s your deer, you’re going to eat the deer, you may mount the deer, but that’s your deer, and you’re taking the time to harvest the.
And as I had Brenda Valentine say on the show a few weeks ago, “People get so wrapped up in ‘I’ve got to get the biggest buck, I’ve got the biggest buck.’ ” Sure we all like to shoot the biggest buck, but most of the bucks aren’t going to reach 150 unless you’re in a very special area. sSo any trophy whitetail to me is mature buck over two and half, three and half years old and older. That’s a mature whitetail and if you tricked that deer or hunted that deer, I shouldn’t say tricked, hunted that deer and got close enough to put him down with a muzzle loader or a rifle or archery gear, then you’ve earned that buck and be proud of it.
Rob: Yeah, absolutely and I look at it, I have a couple of bucks on the wall, and for me it’s not about that’ the biggest buck or the next biggest or whatever. It’s each one is almost a symbol of the experience and that’s what I like, because I look at it and that each one brings me back to that feeling and that memory of the time that I took it. So whether it’s a 12 pointer or a 10 pointer, an 8 pointer, whatever it is, for me it’s the connection to the memory, a connection to the event, who I was with, where I was, and that’s what I take away from a lot of these animals. It’s that special experience, like you say, to hunt them, to work hard, to try to figure them out, be in the right place at the right time where it all lines up and happens. That’s not a random thing. It’s something to be proud of and for most of us that’s sort of the real end goal.
Bruce: Share some lessons learned and taken over the last couple of years that you’ve hunted whitetail and share them with our listeners.
Rob: Sure, a couple of them are . . . and it’s funny, I sort of go back and forth from being a guide versus myself hunting, they’re very different things. I mean, as far as lessons learned for success of a hunter, whether it’s me or if I’m taking other guys out, wind direction I think is probably one of my biggest, I won’t say concern, but it’s one of the biggest factors I think. I mean, if you are in an area where the wind is absolutely blowing the wrong way from where you should be, you’re just better off to not be there. The odds of something happening, unless it’s that incredibly lucky time when the bucks truly are focused on only one thing and ignoring everything else, well maybe it could happen, but wind is I think . . . and it’s getting to be a lot more known and recognized now, but a while ago there was people that didn’t believe or didn’t pay that much attention to it.
So anyway, wind is probably my number one and going right along with that is scent. I mean, before even all the scent companies came out and scent proof clothing and stuff. I had one of the guys in one of the first hunt games that I ever hunted with, every morning when he went out, he would walk up to a cedar tree and he would just take the branches and rub them on his clothes and I thought, “Well, that’s a neat idea.” So from there I started keeping a Rubbermaid container and I’d put all my, at least the exterior layers, of my hunting clothes in this Rubbermaid that was sealed with pine boughs and cedar branches and I’d just keep it in there all season. So the two go together, but wind direction and scent control I think are pretty big ones.
The other one I’ll throw out there, and it’s funny I see the difference now, before I had kids, I was in the tree stand all the time. I would hunt 30 nights regularly for a few years there. So put the time in the stand. You need to be out there, even if it’s not when the buck’s walking in front of you. The more time you’re out there, the more you’re in touch with just what’s going on, is the rut just about to happen, is it just finished, what are the deer feeding on, hard mass or are they going to soft mass? The more you’re out there, the more you’re in touch with what’s going on. The only sort of little hang-up I’ll put on that is be out there at the right time, don’t spend too much time at all costs, and again that goes basically back to wind direction. If you’re sitting in a spot to observe, but all you’re doing is spooking deer out of the area, that’s no good either. But spend as much time as you can out there, but spend the right time or be in the right place at the right time to be out there. Those are probably the top three.
Bruce: Rob, it’s hard to believe, but we’re closing up on our 30 minutes here and this is the time in the show when you get an open mic. So you can give a shout out to QDMA, any sponsors, any people that have helped you along the way, your hunting crew, whatever you’d like. Have at it for a couple of minutes.
Rob: Sure, I guess the first thing I would certainly do is encourage all of your listeners, whether it’s south of the border or north of the border, wherever. If you’re not familiar with the Quality Deer Management Association, at least look us up. Take a couple of minutes to check out our website, qdma.com in the States or qdma.ca in Canada. The amount of information out there is incredible. It’s, like I say, it’s sound, it’s based on science, it’s enough to have drawn me from a government life over to this group. So it’s a great organization with great people behind it, great science. Going from there, hopefully you’ll all become members. There’s a magazine called Quality Whitetail that you get with the membership. It’s an excellent magazine and from there get as involved as you can or as you like.
Personal side for sure, there are probably too many people sort of to thank, but early on as everybody does, I had lots of mentors and people helped me in the Ministry of Natural Resources, both in law enforcement and the management side. A couple of personal people, Terry Dawson and my uncle, Ted Mask, those guys were the ones that sort of, not coming from a family that hunted, they took me under their wings, got me out in the woods and I learned about firearm handing, respect for wildlife, and that sort of thing. So those are for sure some things I hope to leave your listeners with and I would encourage anybody, especially in Canada, give me a call, shoot me an email any time if you have any questions. I am absolutely looking forward to starting some new branches and getting more activities going in Canada. So we’re on Facebook, on QDMA Canada on Facebook, again on qdma.ca website.
Bruce: Share with the listeners what your email address is if you choose to, your phone number, whatever you choose contact information for the best way to get in touch with you.
Rob: Sure, so my contact information again, my name is Rob Argue, cell phone is (613) 823 . . . oh, sorry you’re going to have to edit that one out. My contact information is Rob Argue, email [email protected] and phone number is (613) 558-2227.
Bruce: And Rob, one final thing on QDMA, they put out a whitetail hunting report or Whitetail Report, Kip Adams heads that up, the 2015 is out. So tell people how they can get a copy of that and download it on their computer.
Rob: Sure, yeah there’s that. Every year there’s the Whitetail Report, which like you say, Kip Adams takes data from all the states and as many provinces as he can. It’s just a really good snapshot at what the population is, harvest statistics, harvest data, and that sort of thing. So you can download it for free off of the QDMA website, qdma.com, or you can also order a print copy. I believe they’re $15. QDMA, on the website, you’ll see they have area that’s call The Shed, and it’s a little sort of retail section and you can buy some great books, you can buy t-shirts, there are all sorts of resources in there and that’s also the place where you could order online the print copy of the Whitetail Report.
Bruce: Rob Argue with QDMA Canada, thank you so much for taking a few minutes out of your busy day to share a lot of information not only about QDMA, but about whitetail hunting and your experiences out in, I’ll say out in the bush rather than out in the field, because there’s a lot of bush in Canada.
Rob: There sure is.
Bruce: And we just want to thank you for joining us and we look forward to getting together with you every once in a while and see how QDMA Canada is coming along.
Rob: That’d be great Bruce. I appreciate the time.
Bruce: Listeners, keep the sun to your back, the wind in your face, and always be patient. This is your host Bruce Hutcheon saying, “Go out and make it a fantastic day.”