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Bruce: Four, three, two, one. Welcome to another episode of Whitetail Rendezvous and today we have Hank Forester from QDMA and he runs the Rack Pack. Hank, welcome to the show.
Hank: Thanks for having me, Bruce.
Bruce: Let’s just jump right into it, help the listeners understand what the Rack Pack represents at QDMA.
Hank: Sure, sure. So, the Rack Pack is our youth program at QDMA. I’m a QDMA employee, I oversee all youth education outreach and the Rack Pack is just our fun name for our youth organization.
Bruce: How large is that organization?
Hank: The Rack Pack has been around for a few years and we’re growing. We’re about 1500 youths as annual members right now and growing pretty quickly.
Bruce: And how many branches do you have throughout the country, Hank?
Hank: We have a little over 150 branches, that’s how we term them, just like a chapter. But we have about 153 throughout the country, mainly consisting in the 34 states where you find whitetail deer.
Bruce: Now are those branches set up like other conservation groups like Ducks Unlimited, they have a chairman and they put on events to raise funds and then they have programs to bring kids into the outdoors? Is that similar?
Hank: Absolutely. I think the model runs through all the conservation organizations but yes we try to get them to do fundraising, events, educational events and youth events each year.
Bruce: I know I will give you the open mic at the end but I think this is really important so I’m just going to ask you. If somebody’s interested in contacting either QDMA, home office or a local director, how best would they do that?
Hank: You can always go to QDMA.com, we have a branch directory on there and then it’ll list out all our regional directors throughout the country. You can always go to ratpack.qdma.com if you have youth questions or email directly at [email protected].
Bruce: I’m making a note of it, thank you so much for that. Let’s talk about whitetail hunting for a little bit, Hank. I know that you hunt whitetails, tell us about how you starting hunting whitetails.
Hank: All right, well, I guess I’m part of an ever expanding group, but my parents weren’t big deer hunters. They weren’t hunters in general, but I was fortunate enough to have some very kind neighbors that lived up the street, who had a son about my age, and they pretty much told my parents that any time I wanted to go deer hunting I was welcome to join them. It started with deer and it’s evolved into an addiction to all things hunting. That’s probably why I do what I do, but I was fortunate enough to have a mentor growing up that was outside of my family, which is probably the minority in the hunting. It seems to be a passed on family member to family member background. So mine was a little different and that’s what I do for a living, I guess. I try to entice other hunters to take somebody new afield each year.
Bruce: Do you want to give a shout out to those neighbors?
Hank: Oh, well, sadly the adult John Yao, he passed away a few years ago but his son Seth is still one of my best hunting partners and best friends.
Bruce: Thank you for that. Can you share a couple of tips that they shared with you so could grow up a smart or knowledgeable whitetail hunter?
Hank: You know, I think it really comes down to the inclusion aspect that they showed in my direction. Deer hunters, I think we could be more guilty than most hunters of often being a little antisocial. We don’t like to share information, we don’t want to share all our best spots, we’re always worried about that neighbor across the property line. And that’s something they obviously didn’t show towards other hunters, they included me in their fold and I think it’s very important that all hunters begin to recognize more and more that if we want to continue our sport, we have to reach across those barriers and invite new hunters and that’s exactly what they did.
Bruce: Being a professional in the industry, in the whitetail industry, what do you think three barriers, or restrictions are facing whitetail hunters in America today?
Hank: Well, one that is easily at the top of my mind right now, I’ve seen a few things posted on social media today, my home state of North Carolina is debating Sunday hunting. I know that’s not a gigantic barrier that it is in every state, but North Carolina continues to not allow gun hunting on Sunday. We just got bow hunting a few years ago and I know that Virginia, which I’ve been a citizen of, legalized Sunday hunting a year after I left, which would have been about two years ago.
That’s definitely one restriction that I see, especially for getting youth outdoors. We’ve become a society of working six days a week, or having kids who play sports on Saturday sand I think giving up Sunday or not allowing it in the first place is a huge barrier to getting newcomers in the field. Other things I see are kind of our politics right now with guns with some of the research things that have come about. It’s just an unfortunate climate we find ourselves in terms of hunting.
And then I think it really comes down to, and I might have gotten into it a little bit in the first one, but there’s such a competition for our time these days. I think we’re losing a lot of hunters just because they get too busy in their lives, and that’s something they don’t step back into. We’re seeing more and more of those hunters who lost that connection coming back, we’re seeing new hunters of all types come in to the fold, which is a great thing happening that I see, but too often we’re just very busy and we don’t live in the areas that are conducive to hunting or can find the time.
Bruce: If you had to describe a person that would be the committee chair or run one of your branch organizations, what would . . . can you kind of frame that person up for us?
Hank: You know we have a lot of different outstanding volunteers living QDMA, from a lot of different backgrounds, young and old, male and female. I don’t think it really comes with a certain mold, more than it comes with a dedication and a passion for whitetail deer hunting and our hunting heritage. And really just looking out for the future of our sport so I can’t say that I can nail it down into one mold.
Bruce: Thank you. You just mentioned hunting heritage, how big a part is that at QDMA?
Hank: I think it’s huge. It’s a large part of our organization, we’re fortunate enough to work with the whitetail deer. You know 60% of the money spent on hunting, closer to 70% of the time spent afield is chasing whitetail deer. So we’re fortunate enough to be in the realm with America’s number one game animal. So that’s something that I think we benefit greatly from. Most people when they think of hunting, they think of whitetail deer. And so we really are that animal that has, arguably, the best connection for meat.
You know, I love to shoot duck, I love to shoot dove, anything, turkey season is going on right now. But deer seem to eat the best and they seem to be very plentiful, and it may be one the easiest species for a novice to get out there. I don’t think it’s always the most conducive to fun and excitement, quiet sits in the cold deer stand, can be tough on new hunters but we’ve got the numbers and we’ve got the time and the opportunity to really make whitetail deer the key factor in our hunting heritage as well as our conservation funding throughout he country.
Bruce: How large, per the data you have at QDMA, is the whitetail industry, as per people that go out and whitetail hunt?
Hank: That’s a tough one, and I can’t say I have a number on it off the top of my head. Some of my fellow colleagues at QDMA, Kip Adams, Matt Ross, the other guys in the education and outreach wing, as well as the communication wing with Lindsay Thomas, who you talked to last week, and Tanner Tedeschi, they put together a whitetail report, and I’m sure Lindsay got into it a bit during his interview but it is full of those sorts of facts and the current status of the industry so I invite anybody to look into that. But I can say the whitetail deer makes up a majority of the hunting industry, from products to license sales to anything like that.
Bruce: Lindsay, when he was on the show, basically said that the whitetail industry carries hunting in the United State, because more people hunt whitetail deer than any other critter, that could be ducks, that could be upland birds, that could be the elk out here in the west, and mule deer, pronghorn antelope. It’s the whitetail deer that really allows people to get out on their 40, 20 whatever their acreage is and enjoy the out of doors. Would you agree to that?
Hank: Absolutely. No, I think it’s the major, I’m told, success story of the modern conservation era. You know whitetail deer, at the turn of the century could have been down to as few as 50,000 animals and today they are in the millions. It’s another gigantic number that’s very hard to put our finger on, but we all see deer in our backyards. And I think that’s the big point we need to make especially in the hunting heritage realm. Is if you think back we may have lost generations of hunters due to the lack of game. My father, as I said, is not a hunter. When he was a kid my grandparents would throw him in the car and drive him up on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina, where you had your best chance of seeing a deer. Now, you know, he’s see them in his backyard in town, so the availability of game has given us the opportunity for a resurgence in our sport.
Bruce: Let’s go back and share a couple “ah-ha” moments. That’s when the light bulb goes on and says, “Man I wish I thought about that early. I might have been in a better position to take the buck or I would have goofed up or made that mistake.” Share a couple of those with us, will you Hank.
Hank: Gosh, I’ve made them all personally.
Bruce: Haven’t we all?
Hank: Yeah, absolutely and I learn new things every day. I like to often tell people . . . I go back with the QDMA quite a long time. I didn’t grow up, but I ended up being fortunate enough to have a step-grandfather who was involved in QDMA in the early days because a piece of property in Mississippi. So I’ve seen the benefit of the cooperatives of land owners working together and that’s my connection to QDMA. But my “ah-ha” moments are . . . came along different lines.
When I began hunting they had antler point restrictions in the entire state of Mississippi, they had antler point restrictions on our club, and I fell into that fold and chose my first deer. I didn’t kill until I was 17, it was a nice two and half year old eight point, I had tacked up many a deer before that. But kind of an “ah-ha” moment is where do you set the bar? I was an older than average, probably, first hunter at 17, and I decided to take up the rules set by the men respected in the club, but we can’t do that for everyone. So I think that’s one of the major realizations that I’ve come about is, each hunter is their own person and they come to our sport from a different direction and we need to allow them to explore the sport on their own and make their own decisions. And so for me, I was willing to wait a couple years of hunting in order to kill my first deer. Today, with the kids and the technology that they’re growing up with, I don’t know if we can keep their interest for a few years, but each kid is different. So that maybe an “ah-ha” moment that I’ve seen over the years in my time.
I’ll tell you the biggest, the kind of eye opening “ah-ha” experience in terms of guiding someone happened to me this fall on a military youth hunt. We have some great branches in the state of Kentucky who have partnered with the National Guard there and specifically their family services, and we took 47 youth from military families hunting for the first time during their youth season and I got a young guy, Spencer, really nice young gentleman but 10 years old and he had actually killed his first deer previously on the same hunt, but we take repeat clients on that one, and we were going to film him for a TV show this fall.
And he was a little hesitant to pull the trigger on the range and of course I assume that it’s always recoil. You know, if a kid’s hesitant to pull the trigger it’s got to be recoil, and so he finally, after a little bit of coaching, he shot three times on the range, 50 yards all within a softball size target, I said, “Perfect, we’re great. We’re going to limit our shots.” We were in the field the next morning, cameras rolling and a four point comes out and he’s really hesitant to shoot. And the eight point steps out, so he kind of slumped down, uncocked the gun, goes through the same motions, later a coyote and all this time he’s very hesitant to pull the trigger, and it took ’til that afternoon that I realized it wasn’t recoil, it was hearing. He had had some surgery to ears, that we didn’t know about and he was scared that the noise of the gun, the report of gun, and I think it’s important that we spend enough time before the hunt, with the kids, in a mentor role where we can identify all these things.
And you’re always going to be thrown a curveball but every kid is different and sensitivities need to be worked through. That was a really shocking moment for me, just something I hadn’t seen before, and maybe he was little embarrassed to tell me what the problem was, but we all need to be cognizant of the all the different things that can go on in the field
Bruce: I hope all our listeners just heard what Hank just shared because sometimes, I’m not going to say fear, but I just did, or trepidation or just hesitancy has a root cause. And so the best thing to do, just stop the whole process, stand back grab a soda and have a chat. Because if we can have positive experience in the field and people who take the time to find out what’s going on with that youth, we’re going to be miles ahead, miles ahead with bringing them into the outdoors. Do you believe . . . well do you agree with that Hank?
Hank: Absolutely, absolutely. QDMA, prior to my arrival, created a mentor’s hunting guide, which you can find on QDMA.com as well. But that, along with kind of our First Deer campaign, which is something I’ve created over the years. Another “ah-ha” moment, if you will, is a lot of people think we’re in the business of recruiting kids, and we are. We’ve got a youth program, we want kids to sign up to be a Rack Pack member so we can engage them and keep them interested in hunting, but really I’m in the business of recruiting adults, I’m in the business of recruiting mentors.
We need every hunter to take a new hunter, afield, every year, and that’s exactly what our First Deer campaign is about. It actually came to me while I sitting watching TV one night and I was . . . we often, there’s a misconception about quality deer management and trophy deer management, and QDMA is often misconstrued as trophy deer management, and I kind of invented it as a way to go against that misconception. I pulled together pictures of the staff of QDMA’s First Deer, and with the exception of two of them, most of them are spikes or button bucks, or does. And mine, I told you I waited out a two and half year old eight point, and my colleague Bob DuCharme, his first deer was a very nice Michigan buck, but really wanted to go after and say, “We all like quality bucks at QDMA but these are the deer that matter most.”
And there’s nothing more true than that, is those first deer are the ones that matter most to all of us. So we created our #firstdeer campaign and we’re on a mission to get all hunters to realize that their most rewarding hunts are the hunts where they take someone new afield, and I can attest for that every day in everything I do. I take . . . I don’t hunt for myself as much as one might think, but I guide a lot of youth and help out at a lot of youth hunts and more and more, every volunteer and every hunter who takes someone new realizes that it’s more rewarding to take someone new than even take one themselves, most of the time.
Bruce: Hank, with all the information we have on the web, what are a couple tools, books, videos that you faithfully go to once a month or when it’s getting close to hunting season say, “Hey I’m going to go check x out.” What tools do you use?
Hank: Honestly there’s more information of QDMA.com, I hate to plug that again but . . .
Bruce: Go ahead
Hank: You know, Lindsay, Kip, Brian they all do an incredible job of keeping some of the newest and most relevant information. I read things all the time and learn everything new all the time but there’s great resources there. Of course I like the old magazines of Field Stream, Outdoor Life, I’m a big web reader and I love to read all the old writings of the O’Connors and all the old hunters. Theodore Roosevelt’s probably my favorite if anything, I probably read more Hemingway and Roosevelt. I enjoy all the hunting, but I’m a history major to begin with and love the history of it.
Bruce: Thank you for that. And you can give a shout out to QDMA any time you want.
Hank: I probably should.
Bruce: We’re good with that. Let’s spin it back around to, you just get 100 acres of land, haven’t ever hunted before and now you’re going to get in geared up so you can take some youth hunting next fall. What are five things you’re going to do between now and next fall?
Hank: Well I went on a property tour a couple weeks ago, so I’d always say if you’re not very knowledgeable, read up on habitat or bring someone in. Of course, the first things you’re going to look at is available food for deer, stand locations, hunting locations. For youth in mind, first thing I would do is outdoor underwriters, look at an insurance policy on the property, they can be very affordable, great coverage and include youth and guest hunters. So first and foremost get the liability, get the safety.
Then I would look at available food, patterns of deer, run a trail camera survey if the timing’s right. You want to do those really right before the season and right after the season and if you can legalize use bait it can me more effective at those times for gathering that data. Soil tests, food plots, but really I would, that’s kind of five things I guess but begin to think of the overall plan. You know, I think the more we think about and putting together the model of how we’re going to hunt the property and how the deer are going to use the property and where those align, that’s really where we can do our due diligence.
Bruce: You just mentioned, overall plan for the ground, and that’s one of the businesses QDMA is in. Would you expand on that for our listeners?
Hank: Explain to me exactly what you mean by that? I’m sorry.
Bruce: An overall plan for the ground, you just gave five things. Now when a person become a member of QDMA, you’re going to help them create a plan to balance their herd, to make sure they have food . . .
Hank: Absolutely.
Bruce: . . . cover and water. Expand how you do that. I know they can go on the website but what specific programs do you offer that allow somebody to say, “Hey I never set up a real,” I’m going to call it a business plan, “for my acreage.” Does that make sense?
Hank: Sure, sure. You know we here at QDMA, we can sell you kind of all of the tools you need to manage the land. We’re not in consultation business per se, we do help out a lot of members. But the first thing is sign up for a membership and get the information in our magazines, but it’s really just about collecting that data. We’re very much a scientific based organization and what we preach our approach is very scientific. But a lot of the, dare I say, modern approaches to deer hunting involve a lot, a lot of new electronic technology, trail cameras, GPS maps, looking at terrain, looking at trails, and getting a good idea of what’s [inaudible 00:24:31] on the property, Then of course you need to look at the cover, the available food and the size of deer herd and correlate all that and make sure they all balance. And that’s really what QDM is about, it’s about balancing your deer herd with the food, and really creating a healthy relationship for everyone and healthy ecosystem, healthy deer herd.
Bruce: Thank you for that. We’re at the point of the show here, Hank, that you can continue on and share with our listeners whatever you want to speak to, about the mission, about the vision, about youth all collectively under the banner of QDMA.
Hank: Absolutely.
Bruce: So please, the mic is yours.
Hank: Sure. Well, you know, I’d really just like to highlight a few things we’re doing that I feel like we haven’t touched on yet and that I’m trying expand. As I mentioned the military youth hunt, we want to get more and more involved with each National Guard at each state and are getting our branches involved. We also have teamed with the 4-H in South Carolina on doing a food plot project, something I’d like to expand to others states, but we have over a hundred kids finding a quarter acre food plot, being judged and then winning prizes. It’s great we kind of formed it off an old program that was done for quail, as many know we lost a lot of our quail population so we took it in the direction of deer and it’s been gaining steam and popularity.
And then of course we work a lot with the 4-H and the FFA, and looking to help all the ag teachers out there with a QDMA in the classroom membership. As I mentioned earlier, our whitetail report catalogues a lot of the current issues in the deer world, we also have educational posters, basic guides to quality deer management, aging and judging DVD on the hoof and a few other things. We’re currently building a PowerPoint five day curriculum for that membership and it’s $30 membership built for the classrooms throughout the country. Just want to get better information in the hands of the teachers out there.
And then of course through a partnership with the MidwayUSA foundation. We’re all realizing that there are not enough kids coming out of universities today in the wildlife degrees, so we have a careers and conservation blog on our website where we interview people in the industry first hand. Youth today need to realize there are a lot of jobs that can connect their passions in hunting and careers and they’re available and out there. We would love to see more states employ more deer biologists. In Georgia, where I’m sitting today, we have one deer biologist for the entire state, but actually there’s not that many kids graduating with degrees in deer biology to fill those roles. Wo we’ve got to have the crop of young graduates to expand those roles as well.
Of course we’re doing all that and really just kind of on the advocacy side of trying to engage and inspire and advocate for people taking new hunters afield and of course they’re really excited with the locavore movement, kind of the popularity of hunting on TV. We see all these factors looking good for the future of hunting and want to continue it that way. QDMA is really just here to try to get people educated about how hunting is conservation and how a conservation minded hunter is really the best tool that we have to manage our wildlife and ecosystems.
Bruce: Listeners, I hope you made some notes and will remember some of the things that Hank shared with us about management of deer, about improving your property, about getting kids involved and also taking that one extra step and being a friend, being a neighbor to a military kid because sometimes they don’t see their dads for months and here’s an opportunity for men and women to step up and say, “Hey, why don’t you come hunting with us?” That’s good stuff, Hank, really good stuff. So on behalf the on the Whitetail Rendezvous community, thank you Hank Forester from QDMA for being on the show today.
Hank: Thank you, I really appreciate it.